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I'm Vicky and I'm Laura and this is your home unpacked forget to text your best friend back. Um I'm so excited because Platville is coming back and I need to know what happened. When is it coming back? I think April. But it kind of like snuck up on us because like all of a sudden I saw like an ad on my TikTok algorithm because my TikTok knows me better than I know me. So but I'm just excited. I just want to know. Because it's so culty. It's so culty, but also like these people are raised in like a very controlled environment. And then they were released into the wild, right? And I feel like they're all fucked up mentally, and like just no one's addressed it. What's like the highest form of Christian? Uh evangelicals, that's it. Like they're considered like evangelical Christians, and like TLC like loves evangelicals. Like they like fucking love them. And uh it's wildly fascinating because like the because there's so many like different kinds of sex behind evangelical like Christians. What? Like sections, S E T T Oh sections. Are there you s okay? Yeah, no, no, no. I meant like like different S E C T. Okay, sex. Got it. Okay, sorry. Um, so it's like there's different, like, I'm trying to think, like, do you remember 19 and counting that show that was like a huge documentary about how fucked up it was? The Duggards. Oh my god. So like that is a form of evangelical Christianity, and they are obviously all fucked up because now all the brothers are touching their sisters, allegedly. So hard points. So this is what happens. So this is what happens, right? So anyway, I'm very psyched for Plathville because like because we've been watching this whole like family grow up, basically, and we just see it like coming to a complete grinding hole. And I can't even think about it. I think they were done filming after the last one because of all the like controversy that was going on with that. Um maybe they can't say no to the paycheck, though. You know what I mean? Like people do not should not TLC was cutting them off. I don't think TLC would cut off drama. I mean, the highest ratings, right? Like, think of like the bachelor and the bachelorette. Like, they're not gonna cut that shit out. They did, they just canceled the bachelorette, they just lost all that money. Yeah, but they made so much more money in the past that like that network is so fucked up to begin with. I know. I'm just I'm just saying that was also violent. What was the story? That was physically violent. What's her name? Taylor something I don't think. She's a she was a Mormon wife. But like, what was the reason that they canceled it? Now we're getting off topic. Um are we getting off topic or are we talking about TV drama? Because I feel like this is all the same thing. Oh my god. So it was like physical, it was domestic violence. Oh, yeah, definitely cancel. Yeah, we don't believe in domestic violence. You're like, oh, well, I didn't know. All I saw was like, again, my TikTok algorithm was just like, we're canceling the bachelorette, bah bah bah. And I'm just like, I don't know why. And I have a full-time job. Yeah. Like, I don't pay attention to this. And I think after like the whole like their racist scandal allegedly came out. Oh no, it was it wasn't alleged. Oh, that was real. Yeah, that was real. No, no, no. I mean, I just I just like I'm trying not to get sued. Like, that's what I'm saying, allegedly. I'm pretty sure that was allegedly real. Now you're not me. Like, like, I'm pretty sure you could Google that and find out that all right, ABC. You can sue Warren, don't sue me. Anyway, let's lead into our topic for today. I don't have anything that you want, ABC, I promise. Um, don't take my kids. Today's topic actually has to go with these deformed TV shows because we're talking about what it's like to be in essentially like an incubator um and then watch what health mental health ailments unfolds. So that's great. You so so would you like to begin? Yeah. So our topic today is about anxiety and avoidance. So a lot of topics revolve around anxiety, a lot of diagnoses definitely revolve around anxiety. So I guess my first question would be how would you describe anxiety? Like that's a big word. If I it that's a big question, a very loaded one. So, how would you describe anxiety? Like in my own experience and words? Experience, words, your lore, let's say. My personal lore of anxiety. Um I personally would describe it as like this feeling of I and overwhelm's not the right word. I'm just gonna start there. Of overwhelm, here we go. Overwhelmed to the point of debilitation, okay, where things that um should be simple start to get more and more difficult, either because of loss of executive function or perceived threat. Um, and then of course there can be physical symptoms as well too. No, that's a great, that's a great launching point. So when you say, I'm so glad that you mentioned the word perceive threat. So like when you words, huh? Um, when you say like perceived threat, where does your mind automatically go? Well, our mind, our bodies, our human nature is not really good at this is like a caveman quality we still have, is we're not good at telling the difference between like an email and like a lion chasing us. Like the brain reactivity is like pretty similar.

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Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

So when I say perceived threat, it's like when we get into that state of anxiety or worry, or like if you know you do have work stress or some kind of stress where it's like, ooh, I'm like anticipating this person texting me back, or like I'm anticipating the deadline for this thing, or anticipating like going to this social event, like how are people gonna respond? Like it could you you name it, like it could go a million. I woke up this morning and I feel funny. What does that mean? Like, I you know what I like anything, which is so real because I feel like that's like a very, especially in today's day and age, it's such a common feeling. Well, yeah, you wake up, you open your phone, and something else went horribly wrong. So yeah, it's like and then yeah, so that's a whole other can of worms we'll get into. But as far as perceived threats, I guess like that's what I mean, versus like a real threat of like an actual line chasing you? Yeah, yeah, like I got in an accident, or like I got bad news at a doctor's appointment, or like, you know what I mean? Like something like um something there can be like real threats of like I'm not getting along with someone and that's causing tension, but like, is it a detriment to your safety? Like, no. And that's where our brain like doesn't know how to handle it differently, right? Like you'll get into the same kind of like fight or flight survival part of your brain. And if you stay like that too long, then that's a whole other issue, too. No, that's a good point. I definitely think that anxiety carries a lot of perceived threats rather than I don't want to say it's they're not not real. I yeah, I don't want to say the word reality and I don't want to say the word actual because that's not where I think anxiety really stems from. I think anxiety is a very like in your world, how it revolves and circles around you, right? Like you're the sun and everything revolves around you. And this is for individual to individual. Like the world revolves around you. So all of these planets and universes that are revolving around you, how does this interfere with my universe? And I want to say that that anxiety really stems from what you regard as peaceful can be disrupted. So if you're at peace at all times, there's no anxiety in your life, right? But if you're coming across like, you know, airplanes and and shooting stars and stuff like that, and your universe is automatically collided, like there's a bunch of chaos happening. Well, yeah. I also think that there's like a level of healthy stress versus like anxiety. Yeah. That's a good point. Um, like a deadline is definitely healthy stress. Like things that are keeping you like in things that are keeping you in a kind of, I don't want to say line, but keeping you on a schedule. I think that's like a healthy stressor. Singular, so here's an example. Yeah. So singular deadline for a thing would be a healthy stressor. Right. Having a bunch of deadlines pile up because you keep missing them way different. Would be anxiety. Well, that's way different. I mean, you missing work because you're procrastinating or avoiding due to your anxiety is way, way different than you having a healthy stressor and meeting these deadlines. Yeah. But having like your anxiety come up, like what are other things that might manifest because of like anxiety? So, like, say like missing work deadlines. Like, what other like physical symptoms that you because you already mentioned like, you know, your flight or flight stage. So, like, what happens during these anxiety spells? Like the physical aspect of it. What are some things? Yeah, yeah, emotional. Um, so like I don't know, some people get like, I don't I'm gonna go with my own experience. Like, I've gotten like migraines from it. You've gotten hives. You were like on a medication because of your hives. Yeah, I was getting I was getting the rules just go right for the jugular jugular. Okay, yeah. So yeah. Um, like that went on. So I my that anxiety bow went on for so long that it affected my body's functionality and like nervous system. So I would just like break out in hives and they would never go away. They would just like subs, they would just like get quieter. And so would you consider the hives when I would go to work in the morning, like is when they would come back. Like when as soon as I like left the apartment or whatever of the house to go to work, um flare up. Right. So that trigger that was brought on. Do you want to call it, do you want to call it PTSD? At the time it was, I don't know if I still I don't think I still have the symptoms of PTSD, but for like about a couple, a couple years I did. So I don't I wouldn't break out in hives now if I was driving there, obviously. But would you have like symptoms of PTSD? I guess would you still have physical symptoms, the same physical symptoms of PTSD if it were a different situation that arose rather than that work situation? Uh, can you explain? So, like how you had hives, yeah. Would you still get hives from a different situation? Oh, yeah. That was that was the only time it was that extreme, though. Or it was like repetitive. The only other time I've gotten them was like in college around midterms or finals. I would get them for like around a week or so at a time, and I would just like keep I didn't know what was going on. So I would just keep taking Benadryl, yeah, which was not a good time. But it was only those like week bouts. So this was the longest it would go on because this went on for like months that time. Yeah. But that was the only two times. So I guess the answer is yes. Um, somehow it didn't happen when we were building this house. No, that was coming out in violence, which we're gonna get to later. Oh, true, yeah, yeah. But I know that when I was having like PTSD at the situation and after the situation, even now during my This was work related too. Well, yeah, even now during like after work related and like the lawsuit coming to an end and stuff like that, like it's still PTSD symptoms. And like I don't get them physically like you do. I get straight up panic attacks. Like and I never so I never started getting panic attacks. Like, I think I started getting generalized anxiety when I hit puberty, which is very common for women. Like they because their hormones are now starting, right? Like, not now starting, but now they're starting to like move forward in the way that I need to procreate. Is would that be fair to say that it's just women who get no? I think I think puberty in general is definitely a trigger because I think now you start to realize. I think middle school in general is a PTSD moment. Oh, for real. Because like now you're actually going it, like now you're not playing on a playground anymore. You know what I mean? Like now you're going into a situation where does he like me? Does she like me? Am I cool enough? Is my hair okay? Are these the right jeans to wear? Who's gonna say what about me? Am I popular? Did I get a good grade? Where am I going after this? Do I even have the right classes? I don't know what this school is about. Because I don't know about you, but my elementary school went to a middle school that invited about seven different elementary schools into this one middle school. So I knew my sixth grade class, I didn't know, I don't think I went to elementary school with anybody that was in my sixth grade homeroom. So I didn't know anyone. And keep in mind I had short hair, I looked like a little boy. So like everyone thought I was a boy, and it's hard to also be like, I didn't, I wasn't menstruating at that point. So I had just like no anxiety. I was very like sturdy in myself at that point. And I was okay with saying, like getting bullied and being like, I'm a girl, like, what are you gonna do about it? kind of thing. But by the time I started menstruating, that's when I started getting anxiety about my short hair. That's when I started to grow it out a little bit. That's when I started to like really consider like uh-oh. Like, you know what I mean? Like getting bullied isn't so fun anymore. It's harder, it's harder to stand up for myself now. I'm looking a little bit awkward and my chubby, like all very self-conscious kind of self-esteem kind of things. But getting away from the PTSD point. Well, you getting you mean getting back, because I'm almost wondering, did you have any well, go ahead, sorry, finish? So, like with PTSD, like when I was having panic attacks, I never started, I had generalized anxiety, you know, with puberty, but like moving forward after that, I never started getting severe panic attacks until, you know, my last working place. You know what I mean? What were panic attacks like for you specifically? Was it like mine, like you said, like I had physical symptoms? I did have emotional too, but I think yours were more outright emotional. I think they were very like textbook panics because like what would happen is like my heart rate, like I had like my watch on, so my heart rate was 90 at a resting point. You know what I mean? And like that was for days. Like I would cry at my desk. Um, I didn't know how to regulate my breathing on a lot of points, and I would have to go to the bathroom, or I would have to go for a walk outside, or I would have to go to somebody else's office. I would have to find a face of familiarity and comfort to be recognized, or like I would have to call you. And like I didn't know how to, even like therapy at that point wasn't helping me with my panic attacks. Like, and I wasn't on, like, I was on like bipolar medication, but I wasn't on anything to regulate my panic attacks. And like with that being said, too, because I know we've talked about like our previous therapists like missing a lot of things. Do you feel like your that time of your life was being handled appropriately based on what you disclosed in therapy? No. Okay, but I think that it was a different part of my life that my therapist couldn't grow with me in. Yeah. So I I don't blame her, I don't blame me. I just think it was a different part of my life that I needed different support. Different treatment. You want to say? So my panic attacks were very generalized, but that isn't to say that panic attacks in general can't be like I've known people that say that they can't breathe and they literally need a paper bag. Yeah. I've known people that say, like, like I what they do is they physically put their head between their knees because they can't think of anything else. Like I've I've known a lot of people to have to leave where they are and go for a walk right away. I've known a lot of people to have to have me speak or have something else speak to be like, to get their mind off of something else. Like if they're focused on this like really bad grade, like you have to be like, oh, I really like the color red. This is a these are all the things that are like red or something like that. Or have you ever heard of the five, the five things? Like what can you smell, what can you see, what can you touch, kind of thing? Yeah. So there are definitely like moments like that, but I defin go ahead. Yeah, no, no, no, go ahead. What did you so back to so so back to the what what were your what were your symptoms like specifically? Heavy breathing, race uh very increased heart rate, um, sweating. I did a lot of sweating. Yeah. Um I had a lot of like ticks, I guess. Like I would bite, I would bite the inside of my lip and I would anger and my fingers, like I would bite my fingernails or like the cuticles or something like that. Um a lot of like it's okay. So it was like a lot of stillness and a lot of movement. So like stillness would come with like concentration because if somebody was straight up lying to me and gaslighting me in a situation which I knew about, it'd be very still. But if I was standing up for myself, it'd be a lot of heavy movements as if I was just trying to justify myself because the anxiety was coming out in bouts. So those were my forms of panic attacks. And now that I'm on, you know, an additional medication, um, it definitely helps. Like I don't feel like I still get anxiety. Your environment has changed since then, too. Absolutely, but I still get anxiety when I'm reminded of this. Like the PTSD comes up when my lawyer talks to me. The PTSD comes up when I had to speak with unemployment. Like the PTSD definitely arises um when I see a white forward focus. Well, what's the difference yeah, exactly? What's the difference? Because I guess like what I was gonna ask you is what's to you, like you asked me about like my definition of anxiety. What's your definition of like panic attacks versus panic disorder? Because I know when I've gotten panic attacks, it's different than my anxiety symptoms because I could have hives and function all day. Yeah. And have headaches or like be like nauseous, like IBS was like a continuous thing. I think you're right when saying perceived. But with the panic attack portion, I would like hyperventilate, I would almost like black out, like vision-wise, and like I would get such a loud ringing in my ears that I couldn't actually sounded like vlog, right? Like everything else. Right. So my definition between the two, I definitely think that anxiety and panic disorders. I think that anxiety is an overall no, no, no, panic attacks. Panic attacks, I'm sorry, panic disorders and panic attacks. I think panic disorders are an overarching throughout your life where panic attacks are very centralized. I think it's very central. I think it's like um, you know, when like you have a sensitive like say you have a knot in your muscle, and like I can touch you anywhere else in the muscle, but once I touch that knot, you're like, ugh. Or like when the doctor hits your knee and you like kind of like you do your reaction. Yeah, I am. Um I think it's like that. I think it's very like centralized versus overarching. And I think that that the panic, sorry, elaborate that the panic attack is or the panic disorder is panic disorder. I think a panic disorder is something that is overarching, and I think a panic attack is very centralized. Yeah. And uh that's not to say that like, you know, anything can be super fucking like um we again I know I mentioned this in every episode where millennials, like, what is it, like 85% of us are diagnosed with some kind of disorder? Yeah. Like it's a very real, real feeling. So with the panic attack, it's like an unexpected bout of like fear or panic. Right. But the panic disorder when you say is like overarching. Um, so it's like an it's like an event, a specific isolated event versus like a a thing of triggers. Yes, essentially. Yeah. Can you sign that a little on your words, I think. So I guess like I think it's just that. I think that there's like a a line of things that can be like trigger some versus just life in general, which can be really panic inducing. Because especially right now with the way that the world is turning, with given, you know what I mean? You said about given anything. Like, I think that it can be wildly inducing to feel the way that you're feeling, and it's completely valid to feel those things. I think it's wildly valid, but you also have to remember to one, not self-diagnose and two, give yourself grace to be like, okay, these things are happening. What can I control within my power to at least get to work on time? You know what I mean? It's kind of hard to take it step by step, but you kind of have to remind yourself too. Well, to your point about like not self-diagnosing. Um, like of course, you can like see what resonates, right? But you don't want to self-diagnose person. You still know yourself the best, so you can like do your research, see what resonates, but you still want to potentially get hooked up with a healthcare professional, especially if you feel like it's out of your control because of the intensity level, and that you need to be put on a medication to help you be able to access like the tools and the logic within your brain to function properly. Exactly. I agree with you. So like now go ahead. So I'm glad that you're mentioning medication. Um with that, I think that like moving to like moving through the waves of anxiety. How would you think? Do you think that anxiety can be a symptom of something? Or do you think that anxiety is a symptom? Do you think anxiety is the diagnosis, or do you think that anxiety is a symptom of a diagnosis? Both. Okay. Um, it can be its own diagnosis of like generalized anxiety disorder. I do think that can be a cop out, though, for people who may not know for like lazy PCPs. Yeah, yeah. Like, and I don't want to say like lazy PCPs, because that for a PCP that's generally like out of their realm, anyways, or like, I don't know, let's start with this, let's start with this generalized. And that's a good point. Right. But I think when I say generalized, Generalized anxiety can be blanketed. It's like if even mental health professionals, like if they don't necessarily know what's wrong, they're like, well, I know at least this is anxiety. But the thing is, the at least, and there's a lot of other like branches or overarching or connectors, yeah, that anxiety is a symptom of something else. Definitely. So yes, you can have just generalized anxiety. But if you don't just have generalized anxiety and you're getting treated for just generalized anxiety, then you're gonna probably still feel like something's messed up. You're still gonna have those things. You're still gonna feel like something's messed up. And like a lot of times people are misdiagnosed, and it's like really unfortunate because it's it's just unfortunate that some professions don't do their due diligence with it. And I'm not blaming all professions, I'm blaming some because some people are just lazy within their profession, so they don't fully diagnose. But going into like therapists are still or uh psychiatrists, they're they're all still they're all still people, right? And they're also they're gonna think with their emotions first because that's their job in part. But like I definitely think that anxiety could be a symptom of depression if not doing the due diligence properly. Well, that was part of mine. I actually had like three things that's all I got. What's that? It's a part of a lot of people's stories, yeah. Like I I was just diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder, and I had like brought it up several times. I was like, I feel like something's wrong. Um, and then I also later on got diagnosed with major depressive and then ADHD inattentive, also. And then after those extra two was when I was like, okay, like I think this makes more sense now, and I was like on the right medication and and whatever and getting other treatment to get my brain in check. But to have just being diagnosed with generalized anxiety and given like a standard, like the med that works for did not work for my anxiety, works for yours because yours was that portion of things for you. Absolutely, was anxiety, where for me it was like a symptom of the other issues. Well, that's the thing, is that like anxiety can anxiety is a great mask, right? So, like anxiety can cover up the bigger things that are happening because some people do suffer major, major PTSD. Like, I'm gonna take like a war veteran, right? Like let's take our war veterans, especially like the ones that, you know, in the early 2000s that were being shipped off to war, you know what I mean? Even now, like the threat of a draft, like it's very scary. But that's what I'm saying is that like it's really scary to think that this anxiety, you could be given the wrong medication, thinking, okay, my anxiety is gonna get better, but still having to deal with the depressive thoughts of waking up every day and not knowing why I'm so depressed. You know what I mean? Like, what isn't being touched on and what isn't being addressed, and how do I go about that is really scary. And again, like don't self-diagnose, but if you're on a medication that's not working for you or you feel like you need more of it, then it's not working. And obviously, there's a point where like you might have to go up, but if you constantly feel like as soon as you start to get comfortable on that level, then all of a sudden it's like, oh, gotta go up again. That's typically a sign, and I we didn't know this, that's why we're saying this, it's typically a sign that you're on the wrong medication, right? So, with depression, too, like because anxiety can be a great mask for depression, it can also be a great mask for stress. So when we go into like stress and heightened stress, how do you think like it really plays an effect? Like, how do you think people like manage their stressors with anxiety? Like, how do you think that plays an effect? Uh like how they're connected? Yeah, like how do like because people are stressed, right? So they're gonna like kind of like lash out and they're gonna like how we mentioned earlier, like you lashed out from your anxiety with violence. Yeah. So how do you think people lash out from their anxiety due to stress? So I I think okay, so everyone's different, right? But typically I would say, like, on a societal platform, like this capitalistic now hellscape that we're in, um there is somewhat of a stigma between like men and women about who is it's more appropriate for who to have a an like to have anxiety. Like we're all technically allowed to have allowed on a societal norm, like to have stress. Right. But when stress becomes this like heightened tension where it develops into anxiety, um I think for women we're taught, and there's a stigma across the board, but I think we're taught that it's a little more acceptable for us versus men. And granted, I also am someone who got violent because of my anxiety, my lack of understanding around my feelings. But typically, if we're gonna look like statistically, men are more likely to become irritable or violent due to anxiety. Yeah. And it's typically because society doesn't really allow them to have that emotion, they're kind of told to like shove it down and like be good and do the thing. So when they have be a man. Yeah. So when they have that emotion, they might not understand like what it is. And lack of understanding creates confusion, and then confusion equates to anger. So then we have these people getting irritable and violent. And even to this day, like because since you mentioned me getting violent, I still am not violent anymore, but I still struggle with that. Like, and we talked about this in therapy on Friday, right? I still struggle with like the bandwidth of me getting from like okay to irritable. I'm better with irritable to like anger. Yeah. But well, it's more noticeable. Like within yourself, like it's more noticeable to be like, and now I'm pissed. Like, you know, I'm I'm better, I'm better at managing that jump, but noticing even that my ability to think clearly does even get blurred from like baseline okay to like irritable. Cause we even notice that like it is blurred though, it's very gray. Yeah, like my irritability can it is blurred, but my irritability comes out like very self-serving because then, yeah. So anyway, like as far as like men go in society, they can come like more um erratic, irritable, um, violent. And when we look at the number of violent crimes in the states, it is more disproportionately, not like women don't do it too, but it's disproportionately higher for men. Um so really just going back to the point that like the patriarchy, patriarchy isn't just harmful for women, it's actually harmful for men too, because they're not able to properly express or feel or get assistance for their emotions in the same way that women would because they're not allowed to. And you know, as has anyone ever was stood up and said, like you're not allowed to, maybe in like individual families, but it's a very clear societal message. Like it's heavily implied. It's heavily implied, absolutely. Like these warning labels, like I'm sorry, the warning labels are not, you know, it's interesting when you see them because when you see even we're gonna go back to like puberty warning labels. It was a joke. Oh, but when you go back to like I didn't get it, it's not a good one, clearly, but like when you go back to like say these like puberty movies, right? Like when you're in fifth grade and now you have to watch these puberty movies in health class and shit like that. Oh my god. And like, but like the like women's video is far more sensitive than the men's video. The men's videos, like you said, heavenly implied, like you're gonna grow up and you're gonna get hair on your chest, and you're gonna get hair on your face, and what do we do now? We're gonna chop wood. And like with women, it's like, what are we gonna do now? Well, you might be more inclined to do X, Y, and Z and take care of yourself and primp yourself and clean yourself, right? Like, it's more of a delicate unfolding of a flower, if you will. But like with boys, they're like, you're gonna get bigger muscles, you're gonna have a deeper voice. Like, it's not the idea of your emotions are gonna go wild and you're not gonna have any idea why. Yeah. But they do mention it in the women's video where it's like, well, you're gonna feel a little erratic and you're not gonna understand the reason why, but just know your eggs are dropping and you can carry a human being. Like, but they don't say to men, you have the responsibility of potentially getting a woman pregnant. Like, they don't say stuff like that. I mean, they do, but I think again, society-wise, it's more heavily if we're gonna look at it like the responsibility the responsibility is skewed to being on women for that. But but the whole gist behind it was saying that, like, obviously, you know, men are provided the burden of the patriarchy to not handle their emotions with comprehension. Yeah. And that's not fair. Yeah, that's not fair. I'm not gonna say that's fair. And I think that a lot of women are also confused because if you do come from a state that's not highly educated in sex education, such as the United States as a whole, like, but the Bible belt, like, they don't have like clear visions, it's abstinence or it's get pregnant at 17, right? Like, it's there's no real health education in the United States as a whole. And like more so Bible belt states, but yeah. Right. But what I'm saying is like there's there's a lot of, as you said, heavily implied patriarchal heteronorms that need to be met for men specifically. And I'm not saying that doesn't exist for women. I think that women are automatically assumed to take on the roles of everything else. Right. Well, yeah, because then there's the um, then there's the uneven emotional, um oh my god, what's the word? It's the uneven emotional, not weight, uh burden, but not burden, like responsibility, basically, work, whatever, you know what I'm trying to say. Yeah, like even though we're not in 1950 anymore, the man's allowed to like get up and go to work and come home, and the woman's gotta get up. Yeah, what is that word? Has to get right, has to get up and go to work. And if you know the word, please comment because I'm drawing a blank. Um, get up, go to work, come home, clean, cook. Like they're still doing all the domestic labor. Um, which didn't we calculate is like two million dollars a year or something. Yeah, something well, if you think about how much we even outsource anyway. Um, like a different episode. It's expensive as shit. Um but to the point of yes, oh, that's what you were saying with men and women, how it's skewed, it's skewed unfairly in both directions for different reasons. For men, it's like you're not allowed to have feelings, and if you have them, you're an asshole, and that's why they freak out or you're weak. And with women, I mean, it's also skewed in a weird way because it's like we're allowed to have motion emotions to an extent because if we have too many emotions, then we're crazy. Yeah. And it is more societally acceptable for us to go to like therapy. Oh, yeah. Although I think it's fantastic when men do, because it's like, cool, you're actually aware of yourself, but they're not set up to be aware of themselves. Absolutely. And I don't think that and the last point I'm gonna make, and then I'll shut up, is that even when you said like as far as even like in the LGBTQIA plus community, it's it's sorry guys, we're like trying to make sure we remember all the letters. Um for women together, it's less of it's not fun in public, regardless, but it's less uncomfortable for women in public generally speaking than men. And I don't want to say uncomfortable, it's not the right word, acceptable because that's extremely uncomfortable. Um public for what? Just like even like holding hands in public. Oh, oh like physically being in a relationship with another woman is more outwardly publicly acceptable, at least in our area. I couldn't say because it's softer to the eye than than men. Yeah, quote unquote softer to the eye. I don't believe that. No, I don't either. I'm because I love two men in love. It's so cute. I know it's your like two beards kissing. What I'm saying is like, so is it comfortable for anyone in public? Like, meaning like the couples, not the on takers, because just mind your fucking business. Um no, because I know we've been very uncomfortable multiple times. I can only imagine how uncomfortable like getting mentioned and the comments. But what I'm saying is, like, if we're gonna blanket it, generally speaking, like women have an easier time societal acceptance-wise in a relationship than men do. Can I add comedic relief, please? I do appreciate how creative we've come at, like like when there's comments and stuff like that. I appreciate how creative we've gotten with the response. Like when that guy in New Orleans was like nice dress, and you were like three dollars on Sheen girl. Like, I think it was wish. I think oh, whatever. It was pre-sheen time. No, it was pre-sheen, but sheen, sheen. I don't even know. Sheen. I say it's sheen, whatever. But like I thought it was a really clever thing, and like all of his buddies laughed, and I was like, that was really good. Um, sometimes we bark, yeah, shortly after I said fuck you. But you know, you live and you learn. But coming with stress, like another comedic relief, like what I appreciate with anxiety disorders is that people can also have stress animals. Uh, emotional sport animals, I said. We have four. We have four. And Shannon has said, now I know why you have so many because you need something to do with your hands. She's like, they're like fidget toy. They are like fidget toys. But to be fair, Coven, our little baby, our little kitty, our little Libra baby. Yeah, she like always makes her appearance in uh in therapy because she loves the sound of so Libras are known for balance, and Shannon brings peace to our lives, which really brings full circle why Coven likes to show up in our therapy sessions. Anyway, but we have four animals. We have two cats and we have two rabbits, and they are all fidget sinners.

SPEAKER_01 35:29

So we're gonna they're all fidget sinners.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

Yeah. But also, like, if some that's another like route that you could explore too, like is a service animal. If you like literally feel like you need to have and you should. I mean, like if you literally feel like you need to have them everywhere you go, like who's it really hurting? Yeah, just whatever. Just don't allow your friends to pet them because that's not good. Yeah, because Vicky tried to pet a service cat, a service dog, a service you name it in the airport, and I had to grab her and be like, they're working. So obviously go about it like the legal way, but if you need to make your animal service animal or get yourself a service animal, if you feel like it'll be beneficial, then try to go. Imagine a service turtle. I feel like Imagine a leash on a service turtle. Service chicken. A service rooster. No. Yeah. All right. Anyway. Next up. So I have so with anxiety, service lizard. Um, no, because their their feces smell worse than like a lizard shit. What are you talking about? Yeah, like a bearded dragon. Oh, I don't know. I haven't had a bearded dragon. I haven't had one, but like I've known people that had bearded dragons, and apparently, like, their like droppings smell worse than like a cat or a dog. Which they do because I've smelt them clean their cages, and it's like not too well. I really can't. What about like a service ferret? Ooh. Or a service squirrel. A service raccoon.

unknown 36:54

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 36:55

Service skunk. Sorry. A service porcupine. That's dangerous. I know. It's like you get mad because anxiety comes avoidance. Then avoidance is far different than procrastinating. Procrastination is like self-awareness where avoidance is not. Avoidance is something that people like to do. And I want to use that's a good point. Yeah. Self-awareness is procrastination. Have people have who have that are usually self-aware of avoidance. Like I hadn't, when I was told I was avoidant, or that we were both avoidant, I was like, you're literally lying to me. Like I am the least avoidant person I know. I thought I was too because I was confrontational. Confrontation does not equate to lack of procrastination or avoidance. Or even like task hand like apparently avoidance can go into your personal life too. Just because you get all your work done doesn't mean you're not avoidant. Yeah. So according to the Cleveland Clinic, the need to manage anxiety, fear, or emotional discomfort acting as a coping mechanism to escape perceived threats or pain. So I know perceived. So I know that you mentioned the word perceived earlier, and I'm really happy, like I said, like I'm really happy that you use the word perceived because that can go into so many different realities and so many different forms of what is real and what is not, right? It's still a reality to that person on an individual basis. Just because it's not physically trying to kill you doesn't mean something's like not realistic. Absolutely. That's why I'm saying, like, when we say your feelings are valid, like when I have a deep fear of the government gassing me one day because I am a part of the gay community, that is a real valid fear that I have that is within my reality. Will my next door neighbor who voted the opposite direction have that same fear as I do? No, because it's different for him. But does that make my fear any less valid? No. No, does it also mean it's happening today? Right, exactly. Technically not. But also today, and people in Kansas got their driver's license revoked if they're trans. Well, exactly. So like there are perceived threats that can be perceived as reality and can be perceived as otherwise. Like, is the sky gonna fall and land in my house? No, that's what the tree might. But the tree might. So, like, there are perceived truths and perceived not truths. So, with avoidance also comes like different kinds of disorders as well, such as avoidant personality disorder. So there are a bunch of disorders that come with avoidance. Again, procrastination is different from avoidance. Avoidance happens because you're I don't want to use the word avoid in the definition of avoidance, but it has these perceived threats that you're trying to manage and cope with. So during these bigger things, it's a mental health condition that involves chronic feelings of inadequacy and extreme sensitivity to criticism. Which is different than procrastination because with procrastination, people will push it off because they know that they can do it last minute. Absolutely. Sometimes it's like a dopamine thing. It is. Um, where they're like, I just like don't need to, or like they know consciously they're putting it off. Right. Where avoidance is, like you said, like the feelings of inadequacy and ex and sensitivity to criticism. Right, which comes from a different place. And that can also be overlapping or mixed up with um, it's called sad, which is like a really unfortunate thing that it's called, but it's uh social anxiety disorder, which a lot of people do fear, and that can also be that's a very common thing, which I know a lot of people face and some people kid around about, but it's a real, real thing. Well, you can have social anxiety and not have social anxiety disorder because those are actually quite different. They are, they are very different. You explain the difference. So, so social anxiety disorder is the fear of being judged. So it's a bigger fear of being judged rather than AVPD, which is avoidant personality disorder. So, avoidant personality disorder is more of the feeling of inadequacy and low self-esteem and low self-esteem versus the fear of being judged. So one has a lot to do with yourself, and the other has a lot to do with the outside world outside of you. So which makes sense if you think about it, because the people we know that we have, and again, don't self-diagnose, but that we have suspected that it would be possible for them to have a social anxiety disorder. It is like it's the fear of being judged, but I almost want to spin it as, and please correct me if I'm wrong. But you know how with, and it's not the same thing, but you know how with narcissism, sometimes we blanket it real like, oh wow, a narcissist must be like real fucking full of themselves, you know? With SADS or sad, sad. I know, yeah, it's unfortunate. What's sad with social anxiety disorder? Fear of being judged makes it sound like at baseline that it's like, oh wow, they must really be agoraphobic. Like, not agoraphobic, but like softer, like more in like quieter, like more um a lot of the time. Like afraid of responses, but it could actually be very much the opposite, where it's like in order to avoid being judged, they try to top the food chain, so to speak. And it actually comes out louder. It comes out louder, it comes out aggressive, it comes out more, I don't want to say the word powerful, but like controlled. Controlling. They want to control and dominate the room. Right. And like, so I just want to be clear that I'm sure it can be both ways, but just because someone has social anxiety disorder doesn't mean they're gonna be this like quiet in a corner, like wallflower type person. It's definitely a spectrum. Yeah. And I think that avoidance and avoidant personality disorder, I think it can I think it would be a little bit harder to be diagnosed with that because I think that self-awareness has to be a part of it, right? With say that one with avoidant personality disorder. With avoidant personality disorder. Because I think again, like I think we all have like a touch of social anxiety disorder. Because like even going a touch of social anxiety. Yeah, I'm sorry about that. No, you're right. You're thank you for correcting me. A touch of social anxiety because even going to the grocery store without my headphones, like I get like a little like panicky. So I'm just like, oh my god. Oh my god, I'm gonna go into this big, you know what I mean? And we're at the coffee shop today and there were too many people, and I was just like quiet. Oh, and that fucking squeaky chair, I'm gonna like literally pick it up, fix it for them, and put it back down and be like, it just needed to get done. It just needs to get done. But that's a crazy thought. And do you ever just like live out these realities in your head? No, because I'm not American psycho. Alrighty. Well, if any of this episode did resonate with you, I definitely recommend we recommend looking into one, not self-diagnosing, and two, there is a fun little documentary that we saw to get, you know what I mean, to get a little information because not all of us know. We know our anxiety. We don't know our panic attacks, but we don't know like an We don't know the world. So if you have any idea, I'm just a girl. I'm just really just a girl. But we watched um Anxious America. Living with clinical anxiety and it is free on YouTube. There are commercials, which kind of sucks. And we also like looked into the Cleveland Clinic. And there's also a bunch of universities that also do their own clinics, they also do their own specialties. And there's plenty of articles out there. We truly hope you don't self-diagnose, but do your own research. Do your own research for sure. Then at least if you do seek outside help, you can be like, hey, I feel this way. And here's some things that back that up. So you're not going and being like, I think I have this, and they're like, why? And then you freeze. Because I don't know about you, but like I've done that where I'm like, oh, no, no, no. It's about everything I've ever expected. Yeah. So that might help. But or getting, you know, you can get a pet and make them your animal with a leash on it. I mean, anyone can get a pet and put a leash on it. No, no. Your emotional, what is it? Your service animal. Your service animal. You're like, or you could just get a pet and put a leash on it. It's like, oh, okay. Are you gonna take the leashed pet to work without a license? I don't think so. No, no. There is a dog that works in my building, though. And I don't know if he's a service animal, but he's old and crusty. And I've definitely asked the woman if I could pet him. And she said yes. I'm sorry. He's old and crusty. That's what she said. I didn't call him old and crusty. I was like, every time I see you guys out here, I want to pet him. And she's like, yeah, he's old and crusty. Go ahead and pet him. And like she carries him around and it's her service dog. I don't think so. He's gonna bring the best. Well, I was gonna say if he's not old, I don't know if he can serve much. Like crusty. You ever seen those TikToks where it's like your grandma's crusty old dog? And it's like, oh, and like he's like kind of dead already. Yeah, it's like oh, he needs to be let outside, and then he's like passes out in the grass. Like, oh, he does that sometimes. Then you go to pet him and he's like drooling and like not breathe. He smells really bad. Always. They all smell so bad. Oh my god. There's like a cheese doodle right there. Who gave it that? You cheese doodles. Anyway, listen to Anxious America. Oh. Get your do your research, bring it to a doctor and say, for the love of God, help me. No, for real. But like you don't have to do all that, especially if you can do without medication. We personally have tried without medication and it went poorly, but there are people out there who can manage on their own as long as they have some answers. Hopefully, you are the latter, because it can take forever to find the right med. All right, my friends. We will see you in two weeks with a new episode. And thanks for tuning in. Bye. Oh, yeah. Follow us on Instagram. And TikTok. We got them up and running now, five posts a week. Instagram, TikTok, YouTube Shorts. YouTube Shorts. Spotify. Spotify Create. We have yeah, we have clips on Spotify now too. And just follow me. Okay. Bye.