SPEAKER_03 0:01

I'm Becky G and I'm Lauren. Welcome to you Holland I'm back. Don't forget to text your best friend back.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

So this was the start of Euphoria Season 3, R.I.P. Angus Cloud.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

Yeah, they jumped like 10 years.

SPEAKER_03 0:22

I know.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Definitely like after college, right? I just don't think they didn't do a tribute for Angus. They were like, they were like, oh, he's in jail. And it's like, come on, we couldn't give like any more anything to this.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

I think that's one of the criticisms that they're facing that like they didn't give like proper tribute to him. And it's like, the fuck? One of your main characters, and like what was in that letter?

SPEAKER_02 0:44

Yeah, it's like nothing, nothing got a dress. Yeah, like they they didn't get addressed. They like fast-forwarded it like 10 years. Nate wasn't even Nate anymore.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

I feel like he came in with like a completely different voice, too. You know what I mean? No. Not at all. No, because you know how like in in like season one and season two, he was kind of like tall, dark, and handsome. And I feel like now he comes in with all of his like construction outfits. It's like, what are you doing? Like straight from the Worthering Heights production. And it's like, dude, what do you God's not? Mm-mm. We didn't show up in character today, did we? So I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

I like, I'm still gonna watch it. Duh. It's just like I'm still gonna watch it. I was just kind of like, I know they were gonna be like 30-year-olds in high school, but like you can't end on the note that you ended on last time and just be like, and then remember the play, no, you don't, let's go all the way over here 10 years later. And like the way it ended so chaotically. So for them to just be like, and that was that. We are not gonna address how we moved through any of that. And now everyone's weirdly successful for being like right out of school. And I'm like, that's so unrealistic.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Well, I mean, Rue is a drug mule. So besides you know, besides her. Well, besides besides the drug lord. I do like um, shoot, what is the Lori. Lori, the drug, the drug dealer. And she's like, Rue, you owe me money. And it's like not, it's scary and not scary at all. And she's like, I'd let you off the hook with like a hundred thousand dollars.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

But I'll bet you don't have that either, do you?

SPEAKER_01 2:13

And she's like, uh, well, we have to work something out. And then she's just swallowing like balloons upon balloons of meth.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

And it's like, I know, you know, made me feel better about my health though. I was like, out of all the things I've done, yeah, yeah, that is not one of them.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Yeah, and 1000 made me, it 1000% made me feel better about a lot of things, to be honest. I'm like, I'm not doing that. That's cool. There's not balloons just waiting to burst.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

Imagine if one of them, I get the Well, that's what she said, that you die. I know, but like they were like big ass balloons. They were like I don't even know how you swallow those. It probably would have choked on it and died that way.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

What? Like, what kind of kiwis are why did you have that reference point like ready to go? And it was like a bowl, like it wasn't like a regular bowl, it was like a big popcorn bowl of kiwi balloons. Kiwi balloons.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

All right, guys. Before we get into a whole rabbit hole of Kiwi balloons, we have episode 15 for you. And this one might call you out a little bit because a lot of people are saying that they're setting boundaries. And we talked a lot about boundaries in episode six. Um, but what we're actually doing, or what they're actually doing, is testing people. And the hard part of that is most of the time you don't even realize you're doing it. You're waiting for someone to notice. You're hoping they'll change it without you having to say it directly. You pull back, get quiet, or like build resentment, or um then you feel hurt when they don't respond the way you needed. So it feels like you're setting boundaries, but you're really just testing people. And I think you had a good way of like, we didn't know this was toxic then, but like you coded it as social experiments. So I feel like we'll talk about that too, because that's a really good way to categorize this stuff. So it feels like you're trying, it feels like you're doing the thing, but what's actually happening is you're creating silent expectations and then getting disappointed when they're not met. So in this episode, we're gonna break down the difference between real boundaries and unspoken tests and why this pattern shows up so often, especially in like toxic, emotionally unsafe relationships, or honestly, like self-sabotage. Cause I feel like for sometimes, like you're in charge of your own life. Like no one's saying you can't say these things, but because of the way you're pre-programmed, like that's what you come to the table with, and it just ruins things for yourself. And again, we've done it softly, super common, but I feel like it gets glossed over a lot. So we're gonna bring it to light so y'all don't get stuck doing it.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

Like through your through your years of experience in therapy, how do you take boundaries and what does it mean?

SPEAKER_02 4:47

Well, wasn't there um like a difference between boundaries and barriers? Yeah. So how do you see how do you see the two? I know I like got this wrong when we talked about it in therapy initially. Yeah. Like I got it wrong, meaning like I think I said like a barrier was like a hurdle. And then I don't know what I said a boundary was, but um less of a hurdle? I think something but a boundary is basically like a line of respect that you draw in the sand. I think is it in the sand? Is the sand well it can be in the sand.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

I would say that a barrier is more of an obstacle. Yeah, that's okay. Right? Like I think that a barrier is more of an obstacle that you learn to overcome, where a boundary is a safety protection line. I don't I wouldn't say in the sand though, but I would definitely disagree with that it's in the sand. Like I think that they're like permanent. Unfortunately, I think that they're permanent because I think that where I am right now and where I think a lot of people are in their journey of like self-reflection, I think that they should be permanent to find their peace.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

Oh, I'm not disagreeing that this should be permanent. I'm saying for today, and I think a lot, I think the other the latter of the people that you think have um them permanent. There's the also other half of us who have it more in this in the sand, and that leads to like testing other people. So if you've ever thought like they should just know, or if they cared they would then like, or like this feels like common sense, like I literally just did that, like then this is probably the episode for you. Yeah. So that's what I mean by like in the sand.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

No, that makes sense then. I would definitely say that there's a lot of in the sand boundaries then, because I am guilty of saying, I think a lot of people are guilty of saying, like, well, you should have known this, right? Yeah. Um, expecting people to read your mind, especially in romantic relationships, or it's like, you know, I think that there's more tied to women being with women saying you should have known better. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

Um I think a you should have known better is a really good universal, again, like line line in the sand. And it's like maybe they should have. There's also then this is the caveat, like maybe they should have. But there's a gray area of like what constitutes as like, no, they actually if they cared, they would and they should have, versus like they genuinely weren't given the proper information.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

If they cared, they would is a really good example of falsity in relationships because I think that that creates a lot of one self-doubt in a relationship, two uh resentments that are gonna be buried deep deep in in that person and in that relationship. And it just creates this unspoken tension that eventually develops not just like in the bedroom, because everything translates to the bedroom, but it translates to the tension in your house. So now you're coming home, you're you know, you're coming home to this potentially like landmine-filled home. So let's get into it. Uh because the difference between a boundary and a test is very, very subtle, but it really changes everything and the viewpoints of everything. So it's not what you say, but it's how you say it.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

Do you want to get me? You tell me, you tell me what you mean by that, because clearly we have different perspectives on this on this episode, which is not a bad thing.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

No, but I know that when we were writing like the show notes and stuff like that, we were trying to develop, like I you were explaining what you thought it was, and I was explaining what I thought it was. And we were like, that's not that's not what I But like I think it's a really good example of like missing missing each other because when even like doing this kind of like circumstance of like having a podcast together, like you have to be on the same page, but it's nice that like we can at least like discuss like being on like it's interesting how you and I both think, like, oh, she'll understand what I'm saying, but there's clear comprehension issues for both of us to understand what each of us are saying. So when I sit here and I say, like, it's not what you say, but it's how you say it by implementing respective boundaries. It's like us getting into an argument and me saying, I understand where you're coming from, I understand your anger, but if you yell at me, I have to leave. And it's that subtle hint of I'm not testing you to see if you're gonna raise your voice, I'm not testing you to see if you're gonna push my buttons. I'm telling you what the respective boundary is for me, so you don't test me, and I'm not testing you. So, how would you describe it's not what you say, it's how you say it?

SPEAKER_02 9:21

I think the same thing. I think since we're talking about testing in this episode, like the more what you say, not what you say, but how you say it, is like it goes both ways. Like you said, like this is how you can be firm, and like I'm not testing you, and this is how like I don't want you to test me, and like, but there's also the other side of it, which is like passive aggressive behavior. Definitely. Where it's like, like we said, like you should have known better. So more so like someone not like if you're not setting a boundary, but you're hoping someone will notice, then that's not what you say, it's how you say it. Like you're not saying it. Right. Or you're not saying it clearly, right? It like like it gives like um like dropping hints, passive aggressive behavior, absolutely, giving a piece of the puzzle and expecting someone else to fill in the the gaps. Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

Um well, passive aggressive behavior is really it's not just volatile, but it's wildly apparent when it's happening, but the answer isn't apparent. What do you can you elaborate on? What does that mean? So when someone is passive aggressive, it's always obvious to the people on the outside why a person is passively aggressive, like, oh, it's obvious like why she's upset or like what happened, but the person that's receiving that passive aggression is always like, what's the problem? Like, you know? So I always think that it's always obvious, but it's clearly not that obvious to the insider that's getting the the the backlash of the the aggression, like a third-party perspective. Yeah, it's always easier seeing stuff on the outside, right?

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Okay. Oh, all right. So, for example, as far as like someone, so this was like again, expecting someone to know. Like there was a specific like outing Vicky and I had, and there was someone there that she used to be with. And I had mentioned her in the past that I felt comfortable with her speaking with this person because we've had to already on several occasions, and I was until I wasn't in the general space of them together. So I realized in that moment that like I wasn't comfortable with it, and it was like kind of taking me back to a place, like if you listened for episode one, like a year and a half ago of like not feeling chosen or not feeling first or prioritized. So instead of her coming up to me and being being like, Hey, I know last we spoke, I said X, Y, and Z about this boundary and this person, but it really took me back to that place, seeing you over there like alone. Like I meant I was comfortable in a group setting, like not like wherever. Yeah. Um, and to your point, you were like, Well, last time we talked and last time we were in therapy, you literally said you were fine. So when you came over to me instead of me saying that to you and verbalizing it so that you could have like understood my perspective, I said, Can I help you? Yeah. And like that's an extremely passive, aggressive, and disrespectful way to like put down, it's not even it's not a it's not a boundary, it's a test. It's like me telling you you failed a test without you realizing there was a test. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:25

Basically. So like I guess that's gonna be not going to be like that. Is the premise of like what we're talking about today, as far as like testing verse boundaries, because I did speak of the boundary, it was clear in the context, it was clear in. And when it changed, I didn't communicate that, but I sure let you know that you had like failed this test by being passive aggressive. And I know that as much as like I said in the beginning, it's super common that people do this. Absolutely. So it's not um, it's like getting that under wraps so that you can communicate with more clarity, even if it feels it's not gonna, it's gonna be uncomfortable because it's gonna be really vulnerable. Because in that moment, I would have had to say, This is bringing me back to a place where I felt second. And the last time I felt second with you was right.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

And vulnerability is terrifying, you know what I mean? So, especially vulnerability when you're feeling all of those emotions of eroticism, anger, disappointment, you know, the whole, the whole gamut of feelings. I think that feeling vulnerable is the last thing you want to be with this person who caused all these feelings to be erupted. So, yeah. So when I think of boundaries in other circumstances, because I think that that was a really good example, and thank you for sharing that and being vulnerable and sharing that out loud because it's kind of like in a therapy session when you're afraid to say something. But as a reference point. And so I was like kind of skimming around trying to find other resources for this, and I came across this short film on YouTube and it's called When You Don't Set Boundaries for Yourself, and it's only 20 minutes, it's free, which is really nice. But it's about different circumstances and how your conscience literally lets you know when boundaries are a necessity when it comes to other people and other relationships in your life, or even for yourself. So if you're in the middle of doing a passion project and say, you know, a person calls you and says, Hey, I need your help with something, like, do you want to continue your passion project, or are you just gonna give up what you want to do for this other person? And I think that setting that boundary of like, hey, listen, like I'm doing something for me today, like let me touch base with you later and see where we can go with what you want to do. But I think making space and creating space is an excellent way to set up at least boundaries for yourself. And saying no, the power of saying no is so healthy because learning how to say no for yourself and for your well-being for protecting your peace is so powerful at the end of the day because you know that at least you fought for yourself and you campaigned for yourself versus campaigning for somebody else.

SPEAKER_02 14:56

Yeah, campaign, like definitely campaigning for yourself or somebody else. But when you say like the power of saying no, I feel like I it sounds like it's like just say no and choose yourself. So that's why I'm like, can you elaborate on like because saying no is gonna be uncomfortable and vulnerable. So I know there's like saying no is hard. Right.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

So um because there's always social pressure, there's peer pressure, there's family pressure.

SPEAKER_02 15:25

Yeah. So it's not like you so when it's the power of saying no, it's like that saying no part, and this is where the clarity versus the passive aggressive or the testing comes in. Fair is like when you say no, it's not just like, no, I don't want to. It's like if you're honest and clear and vulnerable, and then the person still tries to push your boundaries, right? Then that's another story. So I guess like give an example from either like the film or even just something more recent.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

So I think of like um like past jobs and stuff like that. Say your boss comes in and you have like a whole list of things that you need to get done, and your boss comes in and says, Hey, I absolutely need you to get this thing done. And you say a people-pleasing aspect of you would say, sure, boss, when do you need it by? Right. And then you step back and then you realize it's the conversation you have yourself have with yourself in the shower after the conversation is done. That's a good one. After your boss leaves, and you say to yourself, When the fuck am I gonna get this done? What the fuck do you think? And it builds this unspoken resentment of fuck you, boss. You already know my plate's full. What you what a positive, more productive way of saying no without being passive aggressive, with the clarity is saying, Listen, what would you like to take priority? Because right now I have a full plate. So what would you like this to take in substitution for? Because something is gonna get knocked off the list. But if you want me to do this, something's gonna get knocked off the list and I'll take care of this now. What's the priority?

SPEAKER_02 16:50

Yeah, or even if you just say, How would you like me to prioritize? How would you like it? Like, what are the top three? Like, because then, because then you're conf, this is the other side of it too, is like ordering confrontational. Because, like, so, and let to your point too, unspoken expectations are resentments waiting to happen. So, like you said, as soon as your boss leaves, then it's like, oh, when the fuck am I gonna get this done? Yeah, yeah, like when the fuck am I gonna get this done? Like, oh, I'm so overworked and burnt out. This isn't worth it. And then they're carrying that a lot, like, then this is where sometimes that can fold over into like you bringing work home with you. Absolutely. Emotionally bad, emotionally baggage, bringing that home with you. Um, so when it comes to, like you said, the lack, this is where I think it gets to be a fine line of like being vulnerable and also not coming off confrontational.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Right. Um, you don't want to be aggressive and saying no, you're just protecting your peace.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

But I can understand how there's certain situations and certain environments where it's like you can be more not saying you can't be self-assured at work. That's not what I'm saying, because you should be, because otherwise that's a dangerous slippery slope in the other direction. But if your boss is like in the mindset where they're like, hey, I need X, Y, and Z done, instead of being like, something's getting knocked off the list, bud, like hope you know that. Just be like, being like, okay, like out of like, I have a full plate right now, I know you already know what's going on. Like, and maybe they don't, but that's a later conversation. You'd be like, what, where does this fall on the list of like top three things? So I know like where to prioritize it. And then just leave it at that. And knowing that if the conversation comes up a couple days later, that like XYZ thing didn't get get done. Well, XYZ thing didn't make it to the top three. Right. So it's not confrontational, but it's like we had this discussion type.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Right.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

Exactly. Pro tip, always get that in writing.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

Um CYA, CYA. Um, but yeah, I definitely think, and I'm glad that you brought up the point of being confrontational, because I know that it goes back to it's not what you say, it's how you say it, because monitoring your tone, because certain people, certain situations will arise in an attitude, a tone, interpretations that are poor, X, you know, whatever the situation is. And I think not matching the other person's energy is is also pivotal in those kind of non-confrontational conversations. Glad you said that. So matching the conversation or matching the energy is a no-go, I think, because I think a lot of the times when you set your boundaries and you set it straight in a in a clear voice, people are gonna take offense to it. People take offense when you say no. And it's protecting your peace, people get offended by that. And I'm not exactly sure, like I do know why when it goes into a deeper reason why, it's because people are insecure with themselves, but that's also a later episode, a later time, right? But when it comes down to you, like this conversation is about you and your boundaries. This is conversation isn't about their boundaries and their safety, it's about where you feel and where you stand. So my piece is saying, I'm not mad at anything. I just need to know how I can get my job done properly. So, boss, where does this lie on the priorities? Or, hey, I'm not gonna show up because I got to take care of my things first. Well, what about this? Listen, let me make it up to you another time and let's go out to lunch and we can talk then.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

But then here's the thing, you actually have to make it up. Because then here's uh and then here's the caveat too is where like if you're constantly the person that blows somebody off, then like because keep in mind, like relationships are a two-way street. So if like you want people to be that friend to you, like you do have to be that friend to them, does that mean that if you have a full plate that you need to overextend? No. Right. But then when you say you're actually gonna make it up, then like get something on the calendar and make it up. Yeah, don't blow it up, don't blow it off and be like again, that's a different topic for a different day. Right. But if you're testing people, then you're not communicating. So it creates confusion, it creates resentment, and that equates to anger. So if you're testing someone and you're not communicating, um then I think what happens is that then it can become confrontational. Yeah. So for example, but is that confrontation coming from you or is that confrontation coming from them? If you're the one testing, it's really coming from you. Yeah. No, I agree with you. I was that was just a and then it can become confrontational because you started the confrontation being passive aggressive or testing, and then the other person's gonna respond to that because unfortunately, like, you know, we all are people and people are people. So if you present passive aggressive, if you present testing and the other person doesn't understand fully what's going on, then like they could put up the defense. And then it's like it's this back, it becomes this back and forth, and then it's more of like not just like who's right and who's wrong, but like your point just got blown over, probably because of the passive aggressive comment or the way that you tested. It became about that reaction rather than the thing you had the boundary about. Yeah, absolutely. So um then that another is another layer of resentments because then it's okay, well, this never got addressed because I had to do the work to make up for XYZ. I had to fill in your gaps because you're an idiot. Yeah. So it's like it's a really it's a really way to go down, yeah, to go down a rabbit hole. So when you're not being clear, it's gonna cost you the like trust and clarity in that relationship. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

I think that's a really easy demise for any relationship. And I think that it's easy to build those things, especially with today's day and age when everything is texting. So you can't read somebody's tone and everybody hides behind a screen. And there's it's easy to it's easy to bullshit. Like it's easy to bullshit. It's easy to say, I didn't look at my phone. My phone was charging and I'm not saying that. Well, yeah. That's it's just easy to bullshit. And like it's really unfair when you do want to build like real human reactions. Or not reactions, I think you're definitely not. No, definitely not. But like it's it's hard when you really want to build these like human interactions, and it's hard when like maybe you're not a phone person, you know what I mean? Like those are really difficult circumstances to to kind of want to be a real person and not such a real world, you know?

SPEAKER_02 22:48

So this is why your boundaries aren't working. Because to your point, like you said earlier, clarity is vulnerable. So that can be really scary. So instead of someone, and that's really natural for all of us. So instead of being like straight up and being like, yeah, I actually like I feel like I'm at full capacity. I'm overwhelmed with like XYZ things I have to do. I can't make it today. But like you said, like let me make it up to you. It's just like, oh, like my dad's goldfish hamster is in town and I'm not gonna make it. And it's like, no, like you can't, first of all, like you're not gonna get the respect back there. And two, then the person's like, okay, so they're not really invested in this relationship. But if it's testing someone, that's more like an excuse, like you said, like bullshitting. Like it's really easy to bullshit in today's day and age. But when it comes to like testing someone, so if you know, we did have if someone did have set plans, like you planned, I don't know, like a trip with someone, like you bought tickets, and I feel like this happens more often than it should, but like totally, right? Like, like you bought tickets, you bought expensive tickets, the hotel's booked, everything's booked, it's all non-refundable.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

And then it's a bachelorette party on top of it.

SPEAKER_02 23:58

Yeah, right. It's a bachelorette party. Well, then you might be relieved. No, I'm kidding. But if it's um it's all like you and like not in the group chat, the group chat's about you for yeah, anyway. So if you're going like with a couple of close friends, like tickets are booked, hotels booked, it's all non-refundable. And yet someone's like, Yeah, like I I think I'm not gonna make it. And you're like, you can't just be like, okay, and then like be a bitch or passive aggressive to them next time you see them, because then it's like they genuinely might not think like we don't they genuinely might not think is a big deal. Like everyone's different, like they may be like that like flaky-esque type personality where it's very flowy and type B, and they're like, Well, like my son's goldfish hamster is coming into town. So like I just want to do that instead. And the person who's, you know, maybe it did take a little bit more on the financial end or the planning end for them to like get up to do this thing may now feel like kind of slighted. So instead of being like, yeah, no, I just like don't think I'm gonna do that anymore. One, it would be on the person to actually like explain like what's going on if it's not quote unquote stupid. But two, it would be on the person to not be passive aggressive who's gonna be pissed about this like last-minute cancellation for something they're not gonna get their money back for. So I guess testing would be like, okay, well, next time I see Alyssa, like I'm just naming a name. I'm not gonna be nice to her because like she, I'm never gonna like, I'm no, like, what was that? Like, she like I'm just gonna, I'm gonna avoid her. I'm not gonna talk, like, I'm just gonna be really cold to her. Like, I will make sure that she knows she's screwed up. But like, you're not making sure she knows she's screwed up, right? You're just being kind of mean and cold and passive aggressive. And was she mean to you? Like, yeah, because you know she blew up your plans, but then you gotta say, like, hey, you know, I get that, like for you, maybe it sounds like this is not as big of a commitment, but for me it was. So I'm a little not just like I'm a little hurt by this, but like this is gonna kind of screw me over financially because I made X, Y, and Z sacrifices to go to this. So, like, truthfully, like, I'm probably never gonna plan something with you again. Yeah, that's it. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you don't have to say it like that, but like to the point of like they need to now know where they are. You need to make a boundary to readjust. Yeah. And if you don't, if you hate them that much now where you want to be passive aggressive to them, then like don't be around them because that's just just such a waste of your energy and theirs. That's what I was getting.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Yeah, is that like in the end, if like this, if certain circumstances, like I'm trying to think. I remember when I was a server and I had like an 85 person party that day, and it was only just like me and this other person, and she called out that morning. And like I was like, yo, what the fuck? And like I remember like texting her and I was just like, yo, are you showing up or nah? Cause like this thing starts in like an hour and I need help setting up. And like it was just the bartender and myself, and like she was like, nah, I'm not showing up. But I did put it on like the app to like basically get like somebody else. And I'm like, no, you didn't, because I went on the app and I checked and she didn't. Yeah. And then I remember like texting her and basically being like, bro, like I'm actually like really upset with you. Like you left me alone to do this, like you knew better, and you really should have had someone cover your shift, like you really should have like done something. And like she didn't apologize. And then the next time I saw her, like, she gave me an attitude. And I was like, What the f this about forward that time, and I was extremely forward. So, like, there are circumstances where people are just people. Oh, yeah. And like people will just do not nice things to you, but like it also, yes, it disrupts your peace. Yes, it disrupts like you, your short term, your eco, right. Like it short term, but like you also have to like, where are they gonna be in your life moving forward? Like, probably non-existent. So, like you have to kind of accept that and move forward.

SPEAKER_02 27:36

Well, that's why if you're waiting for someone to just get it, right, then that's why you're stuck versus like, and in that situation, maybe maybe you were a bit on the confrontational and also server culture is wild, but anyway, no, I was definitely on the confrontational side, but like at the same time, I don't believe that I was because she knew ahead of time.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

And in the server world, if you know ahead of time, you have to get someone to cover. Like, and that was just like a bylaw of the place I worked at. That was like a rule across the board, and like she just didn't, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:06

But to your point, too, like you could have been like, okay, I'll just like ignore her and get over, get over it, push it down for a few shifts, and then like basically wait for it to happen again. And instead, you were more like, hey, this like really made me feel like, you know, kind of like left to fry, like by you. So I don't really feel comfortable taking on like big parties with you anymore. And then yes, they give you an attitude, but then that shows you how well they were able to take it and also like how well maybe they would have acted if the shoe was on the other foot. So, like you said, it's gonna disrupt your your piece short term, it's gonna maybe create a little friction short term, but otherwise, if you're beating around the bush, it's gonna make something that could have been nipped in the bud in like one circumstance take 10. Yeah. And someone like that, you don't want to have it amplify 10 times over to see how much worse it's gonna get. For real. Yeah. Um, so even if it's like uncomfortable or scary to be like, hey, I felt really like thrown to the side here, like to do this by myself. That probably wasn't the most comfortable thing to say. It probably would have been easier to give her like the cold shoulder for a few shifts. Oh yeah. But then if that were to, yeah, if that were to happen, I get like how many other times would that have could left the door open for that to happen then? Yeah is what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

And like it allows it like exactly like you said, like it leaving the door open to not be to not address the issue. I don't want to say confrontational, leaving the door open to not address the issue or not address what you're feeling allows people to walk all over you in circumstances such as that.

SPEAKER_02 29:37

So if you're not setting boundaries, then you're gonna be hoping that they'll magically change. And hope what?

SPEAKER_01 29:44

That's right, breeds eternal misery.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

Oh my god. So I'm trying to think of like other like testing type qualities. So I know like the passive aggressiveness is huge. Oh, your social experiment is a good one. So I love my social experiment. So when I met you, you were like, I'm doing a social experiment. And I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? All right, we're gonna. And you explain them to me. And the messed up part is I was in such a headspace where I'm like, that's a great idea. It's not a great idea. It is like the textbook literal, like how-to manual for passive aggression. Passive aggression and testing people instead of making clear, firm, vulnerable boundaries.

SPEAKER_01 30:22

Take it away. Social experiments. Social experiments are where you see what's gonna happen next with someone that you've predicted is already gonna unfold the plan. So the plot, the plan, the plot, the plot. Right. They are the plot.

SPEAKER_02 30:37

Yes, do it from a first person perspective instead of a third person perspective. Okay. I'm trying to think of like you would get you, I'm trying to think more granular because you would be very specific with like, okay, even with me, I'm gonna throw this out there too. Um when we got together, like I'm very one-track mind. So whatever I'm doing is what I'm doing. Right. And you definitely did not get that about me, probably for years. Yeah. And it would really piss you off if you texted me and I wouldn't text you back right away if I was working or if I was in the field or whatever, the like whatever I was doing during the workday. Because if I'm in work mode, that's like all I can do for the most part. Yeah. Besides like some minor check-ins.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:14

That used to drive you nuts. So what you would do social experiment-wise, is that, and you told me you were doing this this afterwards, which is why I know, is that you would wait as long as it took for me to text you for you to text me back. Yeah. Please elaborate on the logic behind that. Because that is a testing. That is not a boundary.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

That is the kind of like, okay, so if you texted me at like nine o'clock in the morning and you're like, I'm gonna be in the field all day, like I have stuff to do. I'm like, K, K, K, K, K. And then you wouldn't text me again until say like 1 30, right? So I would count how many hours? What is that, nine to 10, 10 to 11, 11, 12, 12 to 1? That's four and a half hours, right? So say you text me at 1.30. I would then wait another four and a half hours to text you back. And what happened is you would text me immediately back saying, Where have you been all day? And it's like, Where have I been all day? Where have you been all day? And it's just it was a form of testing you for you to get the fact that like you're not gonna leave me on red, kind of thing. Did did that work? No.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

What what what did it do? It created a lot of resentments in our relationship, and and what and what else? Anger and and and mistrust, maybe. Yes, because you weren't except me for me. You didn't like that I didn't fit into your category. Yeah. So you tested me, and I had my own version of that kind of stuff with you, or had my own version of that kind of stuff with you. Oh, so let's bring that shit up. I'm just we can't just saying you were the you're you're the one who taught me the social experiments. You literally taught me them. So um, I'm trying to think like there's so many. There's so don't do this, by the way. This is this is this episode. Oh yeah, this is toxic beauty. This episode is on like what not to do. So if this resonates with you at all, again, we've been there, you're not alone. Get a mirror and look at yourself. It's super common, but the latter is what we're looking for. So, not that to basically like train people sickly and subconsciously to get them to do what you want, but to tell them, hey, if you don't text me, for example, we'll use this one. If you don't text me, like it makes me really insecure and anxious for X, Y, and Z reason. And if I'm like, mm-hmm, and then you have to be prepared for this one. That sounds like a you problem, which you definitely weren't prepared for. Um, I very literally am doing nothing, it's just that when I'm working, I'm working, and then when I'm not, I'm not. And the second I'm done working, you will end up being the first priority. It doesn't sit it's vulnerable. I'm working. It's that simple. Yeah. Yeah. But so here's the thing if I did have the brain cells that I have now, if I said that to you, I wouldn't have you wouldn't have received it. But also that probably would have been a really good sign for me if I was in that headspace to to conceptualize all this, to be like, this might not be the right person for me right now. Because if I was in the headspace to be able to like be like that, no, this is literally what it is, and you'd have a short circuit breakthrough over it, like that would have been like a really good line, and then that would have been a really good defining line to be like, okay, like I I love you, I appreciate you, but if you can't be okay with like the way I if you can't do my day and like if you can't be okay without me about if you can't be okay without being codependent on me, that's an issue.

SPEAKER_01 34:33

Yeah. And like that's what it is. That's exactly what it was. Yeah, that's what it was. So that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

Like, this is the part where it gets vulnerable, is like, or uncomfortable, is like, oh, it might hurt their feelings. Like, yeah, it freaking might hurt their feelings.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

Yeah, like I'm sorry, like pickleball that shit back. Like, that's that's on your court.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

That's not on my court. Like, yeah. So if at that time, like it was to be like because you were offending me. You weren't doing anything wrong. Oh, I wasn't doing anything wrong, but you were not, okay. No, I think. But that was, yeah, but that was we didn't have this conversation. We just really really channel. What was I supposed to do? We were like, okay, no. We were like, This like this is what I'm doing. And then I was like, I guess the only choice is to conform and to answer as quick as possible so she doesn't leave me on read for four hours intentionally all the time. Like so yeah, so so our our point of testing is like that is not the healthy thing to do. Yeah. Um the healthy thing to do would have had a conversation and then been like, look, if you're insecure, unfortunately, that sounds like again, I love appreciate you. That sounds like a you problem and the way I function, you have to accept me for me. Yep. If this is gonna work. That's what love is. And this if this is gonna work, and like if you can't accept and trust that like I'm not ignoring you and that I'm working, and the second that I am not working, I can be present six months into a relationship, then like that's what it is. Sounds like you have a lot of shit to figure out. Yeah, but like again, like instead of going the tit for tat. So you want me to give an example of what I no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

Okay, I'll just a really good example.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

I think that that is because that's so common. Like, and I thought you were the only one that did that actually. And then I heard one of our friends like say it a while ago, and I was like, what the fuck? Really? What?

SPEAKER_01 36:14

I didn't know that somebody else did that. I thought I was I thought I was groundbreaking with that. What?

SPEAKER_02 36:19

No, no, not the social, the the the the text Again. I thought I was groundbreaking with that. I thought you were, I thought no one else did that kind of stuff, and then apparently that's not true. So I guess my crazy is a little more common than I think. Yeah, so that's why we have this podcast. Fuck it, talk. Um so with with all of that too. So basically the point is like, even if it's gonna hurt their feelings, like you have to be vulnerable, and all it's gonna do at the end of the day is save you time. Because if you do this testing back and forth, if you think about it, like yes, we're together now and we're we're well, but like at what cost, Stevie?

SPEAKER_03 36:52

Thanks. You're okay.

SPEAKER_02 36:55

So if there's only one thing that you actually take from this episode, it's this Clarity's gonna feel vulnerable. It's not gonna make you comfortable, and you're gonna feel like you're staying, you may feel like as extreme as like you standing in front of somebody naked while you tell them. You will feel like a bump on a log.

SPEAKER_03 37:13

No. That's the wrong analogy. That's that's the wrong analogy. No. No, no. Okay, but that's that's incorrect. Um but it's the I like can't with you like what else? What else are you gonna feel like? Like a toad on a stool? Like, what are you like what are you? What the fuck? Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 37:49

Oh, so the clarity is gonna make you feel vulnerable. So again, do you think like Vicky liked telling her family, like, hey, I think we need family therapy because of X, Y, and Z about our communication. But it's the only thing that really gives your relationships a chance to change. Otherwise, you get stuck in this perpetual cycle of like you testing, them not getting it and it going back and forth. Because when you're not saying what you need, you're not setting a boundary, you're creating a test. And tests don't build connection, they build confusion, resentment, and distance. And then that can build up over time and make the relationship even more and more volatile. So if you're starting to see this pattern in yourself, don't turn it into shame. Like again, like clearly a lot of us are uh guilty of it. That's why we're having this episode. Just let it be awareness, because awareness is where things can actually start to shift. And if this episode hit for you, you definitely need to listen to episode 10 next because that's where we break down emotional labor, what happens when you become the one carrying the entire relationship, which is often where this, which is often where this pattern leads. So make sure you're following us so you don't miss what's coming next. And if this resonated, send it to someone who's been feeling this or been testing people, but hasn't quite been able to put it into words. So we'll see you guys in the next one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:07

Yeah, yeah. See ya. All right, bye guys.