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Welcome to Yuhan. I'm back. Don't forget to text your best friend back. I'm Vicky. I'm Lauren. I just reversed it. We did that backwards. Anyway. It is if you are, if you are fall girly, the first crispy leaf has fallen at the very end of this August. And our sheep have eaten it. They are eating all the leaves. I don't think we have to rake them this year. Oh my goodness. Any fall shows coming up? I don't know. I feel like it because it's like the beginning of like the school year, they always come out with like tinging dramas around this time. Didn't you turn me on to a show last night and then you got bored of it and furious, yeah, with Emmy Rossom. But I was really like Emmy Rossom. I was excited and you were like, I literally can't watch this. Maybe I have to give it another chance. I loved her in Shameless. I think you should give it another chance a little bit. Alright. A little bit. I just like, and I really like her like persona in it too. Like it's very very furious, if you ask me. Yeah. And like I just don't know the full premise. Maybe I just need to give it like another opportunity. I think you should. Okay. I think I think you should. Alright. But Emmy Rossom's cool. Yes. Emmy Ross Emmy Rossom's cool. Emmy Rossman's cool. Yeah. Are there any other shows that are coming out? Horror movies? I know a lot of horror movies are coming out. We we did our annual renew of Shudder for like a whole two months so that we can binge watch all of oh, if anyone has not watched Cher, if anyone has not watched Channel Zero yet, watch it. That's a good show. It's it's so good, and I feel like no one talks about it. It's like a little horror series where each series is unrelated. Anthology piece, that's it. Yes. And it each seer season is unrelated to the one prior. Yeah, it's pretty great. So it's sick. It's only four seasons and it was totally made before its time. Because I think that if it were made now, I think it would also compete with American Horror Story. I think it would too. Like why I'm like, I don't way. I don't know how like it just didn't get picked up. When did it come out? Uh I don't know. Maybe it did compete with American Horror Story and it just failed. Or just didn't do as well. I don't want to say failed, it just didn't do as well. I don't know how. So if you never heard of it, give it a go. Go on a shutter bench. Also, Boulet Brothers, because that's on Shudder 2. And if you're into RuPaul's drag race, if you're into any kind of like drag or even like horror makeup, Boulet Brothers Dragula is sensational. At least I think it's sensational. I think it's so much fun to watch. It is sensational. And like the costumes, the creations, the imagination that they have, it's oh my god. Like, how does one person like wrap their mind around this? And it's just, it's so, so cool. And it's what do they say? Um, filth, horror, drag, glamour. And I feel like it's all of those things. Yeah, that's the point. It's just all of those things. Yes. But yes, it is spooky season, it's among us. The end of August counts. We can now enjoy pumpkin spice without being shamed. I started doing that on July 5th. And you know it's not sensational though, since I know you're like Boolang Brothers is sensational. What? You know, it's not sensational when you're stuck between your best friend and your partner. That is not sensational. That's not sensational. So welcome to today's topic. Yeah, yes. So if you ever feel like you're in some kind of emotional warfare with your partner and your significant other, like it's not just that your um your partner's your best friend and your significant other. Sorry. If you ever feel like your best friend isn't just like not vibing with your partner, it's not just that, but it's like you almost feel like you have to pick one or the other because there's so much turmoil and you feel like you're kind of being pulled between both sides. This episode is for you. Yeah, definitely. I feel like it's um what did we uh a tug of war. It's definitely like a good tug of war with it. I know, but then like the more but the more I sat on it, the more I was like, no, she's right. I was like, it is like a tug of war. That's like definitely the feelings because one person will say the other and then the other person will say something else, and you're just, you know, folding laundry. Just trying to give them credit. Just folding laundry. And like it sucks because like you love your best friend for all like intents and purposes, and then you like love your partner because like they're your partner, but like that's the glory of having a partner, is you get to cuddle and have sex with them. You can't cuddle and have sex with your best friend. That's fucking weird. I mean, some people do do that, but that's well, you're my best friend and I cuddle and have sex with you. We're married, that's it. So let's set the stage, if you will. Um, so it's your best friend, it is you, and it is your partner and an audience of anyone on social media because it will get to that point. It always gets to that point. So uh oh god, it's always the worst because I feel like social media like it takes it to a whole new level, and that's where the real undercurrent plays its part. And I guess I shouldn't say everyone on social media media would notice, but there's these little like I'm gonna call them like girl games. I was gonna say tells, but girl games are is way better of a consideration. I mean, technically anyone can do this, but um for the sake of this episode, I'm gonna call them girl games. No, no, please. Gigi is good. Gigi. So um, like you said, best friend, partner, we're gonna say social media. Who else is on the who else is on the fence? Um, I would say your family for sure, because I think other friends. Anyone that you really vent to because you're gonna vent to your family about it. And like Yeah. You might. And other and if you're in a friend group with this person, any anyone else that you open your mouth to basically will sum it up to that. Because it could be one people, it could be six people, depends on the person. Exactly. So honestly, let's start at the beginning. What was like the real, let's use real life examples and use your best friend at the time. Let's call her Claire. Claire. Oh, yes, Degrassi. Um, Claire, let's call her Claire. Um Claire. She, if for anyone who's listened to previous episodes, she was my matron of honor in our weddings. If you want to connect the dots there, if you've been listening along. Beep, boop, beep. Yeah. Anyway, so Claire sucked. Um Claire. Of course you're gonna say that because you were the one on the other side. Yeah. I was the one in the middle. I know. So anyway, Claire. So what really triggered, I guess, from your perspective, what really triggered the dislikes, dishonesty, distrust? Dishonesty? Yeah, I know that I I want to scratch dishonesty. I'm gonna say distrust. That's why I said distrust. I was like, I don't know, it was pretty open. Um I say dishonesty, that's where the girl games comes in. Gotcha. Okay, okay. That thank you for explaining that better. Um, so honestly, with Claire prior to you, Claire had never liked any of my other series, other two of my serious partners. Okay. Um, and they didn't like her either. So basically, from my perspective, from my POV with Claire, if anyone was interfering with how much time I would spend with her, whether it's just you know, speaking over the phone or seeing in person, right, she would feel almost in competition f with them. Again, my perspective. And when that would happen after a while, it would kind of develop from I like this person to like, well, uh, you also spend too much time with your partner, which is true to an extent, but it wouldn't just be you spend too much time with your partner, it would get to like a point of competition where it's like I wouldn't like this person for reasons X, Y, and Z. And then it would kind of like build from there. So with you, can I pause you for a bit? Yeah. So when you when she would say you spent too much time with your partner, did you think that you were spending too much time with your partner or an appropriate amount of time and she took it as you were spending? Well, I didn't have any, I'll say this. I didn't have any other friends who said that to me. Okay. I was gonna say, from my perspective, I never Your partner. You're the partner perspective. No, no, no, not like taking myself out. I know I'm the person who spent too much time with their partner. Oh, okay. So that's why I'm asking you, did you, or was this just like her saying? I mean, I think there was times I definitely did. I'm not gonna say she like made that up, um, but I will say she's the only one who ever like said anything about it to me. Okay. Um, I did obviously then make sure to like, you know, even that out. Just according to. Because like that is a relationship I cared about. So yeah. Um, but as far as like the beginning. So for setting the stage, the very beginning is always like a little bit quieter, I guess is the right word for it. Like sometimes some people are really open and honest and be like, yo, I just do not like your partner, like the vibes are off, or they know them from something else, so they already have a predisposition about them. Which can be respectful in a way, which can I can appreciate the honesty and the bluntness behind it. I can appreciate it. Right, right, right, right. That's that's the end of that thought. Exactly. I can appreciate it. Um, but for you, it's not like she had known, I mean, she really know any because everyone was from she didn't know you. No, I know. I'm just thinking about the other two. One was from college, the other one she really didn't know either. So yeah, like she didn't really like know them or know much of them. Right. It was more about like what she would hear or what she would feel or what a time or attention it would take away from her. And I was someone who like I always dated to potentially marry, right? So like I would spend a lot of time with my partner. Yeah, you ain't wasting time, girl. With no, with that being with that being said, I did waste a lot of time, but but with that being said, for her, like how it started with you, I know is like she would even kind of overstep on my end so that she could come off as like almost a position of authority to you. Like, for example, in the very, very beginning, without even telling me she had invited you to lunch to basically ask you like what your intentions with me were, without her even seeing if I was like comfortable with that. Keep in mind, like, I'm an adult. Like, I'm like, so, and this isn't like we're teenagers, like, this isn't like you know what I mean. Like, so without even telling me that was gonna happen, I mean you were a trooper for going to do it, but then that kind of like immediate set up a power dynamic, which is something else we've talked about, where it's like she has a position of authority where like you essentially need to respect her right off the bat, right? And of course, you have should respect all of your partner's friends, but she set it up as like a tier, like she's the first, she's the final boss kind of thing. Right. So when she originally did that and said, you know, I want to invite you to lunch, I just like want to get to know you, kind of thing, and that's how she set it up, which I was like, that would have been more normal than what she did, but okay. I agree. So when she set it up a certain way, but then didn't follow through with that sound. Yeah. So when she originally invited me out to lunch, and it was like surf tacos, so it was like chill, it wasn't like anything crazy. No, like so. I was like, okay, yeah, I think that's actually really nice that I get to know like her front, like meaning you, I get to know like Lauren's friends, so I can get like a gist of it. This is her best friend. Like, let me, let me give it, let me I don't know. Like, I just let me give it a go. Not just yeah, let me give it a go. Not just that, but I was like in the process of like, I want to, I was also in an in the incorrect headspace because I was sitting there thinking I need the respect of your parents, your friends, your family to continue a relationship with you because we had established how important that was to each other. So I was like, let me prove to my future wife how much I care about her friends and her feelings and X, Y, and Z. Which I appreciate. And again, it starts slow. This isn't like start slow. This is this was just like the first thing was like without my I was duped, without my without my say, like it kind of just like happening, like whatever. And you were newly dating me, so you weren't gonna be like, Hey, your friend asked me to until it was like already happening. Right. I was like, I I mean, uh let's go get some tacos. You know what I mean? Like as a lesbian, like, yeah, let's go get some tacos. Um so go ahead. No, you go, no, you go ahead. So on my end, what I had was the same thing, my matron of honor, and it started very slow because she because she always forgot. Right. Let's call her we both have this Blair. So like Blair, yes, Blair. Blair. So like let's call her Blair because I feel like she's as bland as that name. So same thing with anyone, okay, that was unnecessary. Same thing with same thing with anyone listening. Don't be a girl here. Sorry. Same thing with anyone listening from prior episodes. Um Blair was matron of honor in our wedding on Vicky's side. And it was a very slow process because with my previous relationships, she would always say, like, I don't know, like, I don't remember their name. I don't know who you're dating. Like, I have no idea. But she never showed an interest until you started coming around. And even then, it's like she wouldn't look at you in conversation. She would just look at me, or she wouldn't direct questions towards you. And I wouldn't notice it until you brought it up to me. I, yeah, like same thing. It was slow. Like, she had a different way of like positioning her authority or power than mine. Hers was, I won't look at you. Uh-huh. And like, I won't include you in conversation to show that like I'm more important because like Vicky will show listen to me. Vicky will respond that way without including you too, kind of thing. Like just to be like, I'm more important. Yes, I can put my strengths and you can't. And these are under the current things. This isn't like she was like, Yeah, I'm not gonna pay attention to her. Uh-huh. I just don't want to. Yeah. Like it wasn't like it was, it was like, again, we're talking like eye contact is like how granular we're getting here. Because like, this is the stuff body language is what I'm gonna, I'm gonna say this percentage wrong, but like 80% or something. I go with it. Whenever somebody crosses their arms, I kind of read it as like, okay, we don't talk about this topic. Right. Like we're talking like 80%-ish or something, and it's a very large percentage of like how we communicate in general is body language. So yes, eye contact is part of it. And I also know that like when people she's not neurodivergent for those of those, for those of us that are like that. Well, that's a thing. No, no, no, no. And if she was, like, I could completely like that's the thing, is like if I'm aware that someone's neurodivergent or someone's just eye contact, like intimidates them or something like that, like I can completely respect that. It wasn't that. It wasn't exactly that was far from what the truth was. So, like, that's the thing is that like it was as small as that, and that was the undercurrent, and that's how slow it started. So, no, she wasn't asking you out to lunch to ask what your intentions were with me, but she was definitely jumping around those things to be like, let's see how long she lasts. Mm-hmm. So, like that was the tone. That was the tone. So, anyway, when so that's the setting of like that's how it starts. And that's the kind of energy it really like presented in both of our relationships with both of them. And it was hard for both of us. I'm gonna speak for my and I don't want to speak for you. It was hard for me to bring that to your attention, to be like, Oh, I don't think it was hard for me. I think I said it right away. Uh it was hard for me because I was like, okay, like she's this very major player in like your life. And like we had had strains of other friendships in our lives, and I was like, okay, so this person's gonna be around for a while, but yeah, I should at least like let me do my best. You know what I mean? Let me do my best. And there were times that she would come over and I'd be like, you know what? Why don't you guys have girl time and like I'll go out and get you some snacks, you know what I mean? And I'll be back and like I'll go for a walk so you guys could like chill on the couch and just like girl down. But let's keep in mind the reason you even started doing that in the first place was because when she was there, it would make you feel uncomfortable even in your own house because of how she would energetically take up the space in the room. Absolutely. Like, like just now because she entered the space, it is now more hers. Exactly. I have to make sure that she's comfortable. Yes. And like, yes, like as a good host, you should do that. But it's like it wasn't just making sure she was comfortable. It was I now have more ownership because I stepped in the space, so now you are jumped down a tier. Exactly. Like, as far as level of importance goes. Exactly. That's what it was, not just, hey, I'm a guest, you should be taking care of me. Which is fair. And it vice versa. The person Blair never even Blair came over to our house one time, and like that was to show us her newborn. Yes, but that's no, should we fair without no, that's not true. That's not true. Uh-huh. Oh, then I completely forgot. Yeah, no, you did. Okay, that's not true. Um, but as far as that's so no, but you're incorrect. No, no, that's not true. But as far as like you're traumatizing the woman, yeah, like you're same. So as far as like the space goes, though, like I even remember like meeting her for the first time, and we went and met at a bar, and she didn't even talk to me at all until you went to the bathroom. And even then, it was like, How'd you meet? And I said words, like, oh, that's not the first time. And it was like, ooh, I know, bitch. Like, relax, like some. You know what I mean? So, like, stuff like that. I didn't even know she said that. It was something along those lines. Don't quote me exactly, but it's it was definitely like, oh, like set the tone. Yeah, it was definitely a way to set the tone. And I was like, all right. And as far as it being hard for me to tell you, maybe it was, but I don't think I had a problem being like, hey, I don't know if you've noticed this, but XYZ happened. Yeah. I think it started to get hard as it progressed. The initial, like, hey, these are things that are like, I want you to notice because they bother me was one thing, but as it progressed, it definitely got harder to be like, hey, because it builds, yeah, tension builds, and then the pull builds on each side and just gets worse. The beginning stages are like, well, for a while, no one walks into a domestic violence relationship and thinks that that's gonna happen. So it's always a slow build. And I'm not comparing this to that. I'm just saying it's no, it's never that obvious right off the bat. So at first I started to I didn't even know. When I started to realize it is when I said, Hey, can you tell me? Because her birthday party was coming up and we were gonna go. And they say, This was the first time you notice? Sorry. I mean, with my poor memory in this conversation, yes. Okay. So like it's probably not the first time I noticed, but in my poor memory for this conversation purposes, yes. So like I asked her, Can you tell me if this person's gonna be at your party? Because they make me very uncomfortable. Um and she didn't tell me, and we get there, and that person is there. And I was like, hey, we're gonna leave because of X, Y, and Z. And her response was, is Lauren that uncomfortable? No, does Lauren hate him that much? Oh yeah, does Lauren hate him that much? And I go, No, Lauren doesn't know him to hate him, but we're both uncomfortable in this situation, so we're gonna go. And that was it. Yeah. And that was like one of the tall tale signs, one of them, that I was like, You could have just said something. You could have just told me something. Yeah. And maybe it would have just came earlier and then let whatever, like or or came later, some something. Yeah. But it was just a very obvious I don't care. Uh-huh. And I was really like offended and hurt by it. I don't respect her and I don't care kind of thing. Oh yeah, I don't respect you and I don't know. I don't know if she respected you either. Because that was because the more I reflect on it, the more I'm like, I mean, like a lot of that relationship has left my brain because I don't need that information anymore. But like, it's like SpongeBob like shredding those papers. Like the the brain episode. Yeah, where it's like, we don't need this anymore. Like that's how my brain is working. Like, we don't need this. And like, that's I'm just making space for things that I do need now. So, like, yeah, you know what I mean? Like, that's that's where we're at. And like that was again one of the tall tale signs. What about you? What was like a major thing that stuck out? Well, one of the major th okay, one of the this is this isn't the first thing by any means. Cause I think I even told you from the jump, I was like, I know she does this, isn't the first time she's done this, like kind of thing. Like, I think I was very open of like this is a this is a thing. Like, but I didn't I didn't have the maturity to know what to do about it. So I kind of just tried to navigate the middle ground. Yeah. Um, one of the first things was when we were in Atlantic City for um warp tour. Oh yeah. And that was so cool, just terrible location. Yeah. And um we were everyone was in bathing suits, obviously everyone was in bathing suits, obviously, because like it was a hundred degrees out. There was we were on the beach, there was sand, rough, rough, rough venue. And there was a girl in front of us, and she had said to you, like, Oh, look at those that girl's tattoo, or did you see that girl's tattoo or something? She had a tattoo on her ball. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you were like, No, and she was like, Good, that was a test. And it's like trying to see if you were like checking out some other girl. And I'm like, if you were, like, you and I check out people all the time. I know, I know, but it was just like like it was just setting you up for failure so she could report something back as like a data point. So, like that was like a really clear sign of like, okay, like now you're just like fishing. Right. And when it comes to like your best friend, they don't get, and granted, both of these people knew us for a very long time, like since we were kids. Right. But just because they knew us longer, it doesn't mean they get custody of you. I know. It doesn't mean that they know like let's strip it. Just because they knew you first doesn't mean they get custody of you. Yeah. Like over like you. I didn't sign my papers. Like, so it does come off that yeah, way as things start to progress, where it's like very territorial, like mind, my mind, my mind. And it's like, why can't we all just coexist? So ish. Yeah, no, exactly. So that brings me to the point. And this is all before the reason we started this podcast. No, I know. So that brings me to the point. Did we try and fix it? Mmm. Like realistically, did we try and fix it, or did we just have these small conversations thinking it was going to be fixed? Like, oh, they got married, it's gonna be fixed. Oh, they had a baby, it's gonna be fixed. Ooh, that's a good question. I'm trying to think. Like because I don't think I put in the effort to try and fix it until I realized Here's the thing. It was go ahead. Sorry. I don't think until I got into real therapy. I don't think that I tried to fix it because I kind of always knew in the back of my head I'm like, this person isn't that important. Me because I know they don't respect me. And I kind of always knew that. And then when I got in real therapy, I actually had the courage, the strength, and the confidence to say, I'm good. I'm going to challenge you on that, if you don't mind. Because you had told me for the many times I had brought up how like irritating this was. That like essentially, like, we're gonna have to figure out a way to deal with it because they are always going to be in your life. So I don't know if you really did feel that they weren't that important to you as much as you were willing to accept that's how they were. I knew that you were always more important to me. So if you set back and said, listen, I can't do this anymore, I would I don't think I ever said that to you. No, you never gave me the ultimatum, ever, ever, ever. Well, I wouldn't give you an ultimate. No, because neither would I with you. But like that's the thing is that if I knew ultimately you were always gonna be number one. So if I think it got better when you started acting like I was number one. Because for a while, for a while I did have a problem where I was like, look, like you can be their friend and all, but if I'm gonna keep feeling second, like this is gonna be an issue. Absolutely. And you had every right to And you did start shifting that, and that was at our bachelorette party when we all had a plan, like, hey, we're gonna go here together, and her and her partner had run off to gamble, to run away. Before anyone established anything, and we the rest of the group was still there. So then I remember you kind of like hightailed it to go find her. And then that was actually like the pivotal point of like where the rest of the night started going. And after that, I was like, look, if this is gonna keep being a thing, if you're gonna go like rescue her like all the time when it's not even supposed to be about her, then we're gonna have an issue. And you did stop at that point and you did start choosing me. And when your relationship with her started falling apart from my perspective, is when you did start choosing me over her. Absolutely. Because it pissed her off. And I was more likely to move in the direction of you because I was like, this is my wife. I'm moving in the direction of her, and I don't have any I don't like I don't care what not you, her. Yeah, I don't, Blair, I don't care what you think. Like this is my this is my wife, and you would do the same for your partner. And like internally, I knew that. So that's why I was like, I don't fucking care. I don't fucking care. You're mad because I didn't get back to your messages, you're mad because I don't want to hang out with you, you're mad. Like, I don't fucking care. So did we do anything about it? No. Not directly. So as far as like the what we you did, what you did about it is you started picking me over her, but you didn't really verbalize this to her that that's what you were doing. For me, I don't think I did anything about it at all. Like except for limiting my time with her, to be honest with you. I think that's like all I did. I didn't communicate to, and here's the thing because all of this was so, just to be clear, because all of this was so undercurrent where it was like looks and exchanges and little setups, like I didn't know at the time that I could just literally list those things off and be like, hey, like this, clearly there's a vibe going on here. Like, what is this about? And like, what are we gonna do about it? I didn't do that, so I just kept trying to navigate it. Um and I didn't say to her, like, hey, like whether you say so or not, it's clear you don't like her. So, like, what's your problem? kind of thing. Like, I didn't have that conversation with her. What I did do is start pulling back and like limiting more and more time with her. Um, or like sectioning my time out, like I would only go see her without you unless it was a group thing, like or something like that. So no, I don't I don't think tell me about I just gave you my perspective on yours. Why don't you give me your perspective on mine a little bit? Um when it comes to uh when you say perspective, can you give me more of a narrow question? Um so you know how for you and Blair, I was like, this is when I started noticing, this is when I drew the line in the sand. Okay kind of thing. So they were yeah. So when she when she ruined my birthday. So when we got married on paper, and she was like, why isn't it about me? Why wasn't I invited? Why, why, why when no one was there besides my mom and my sister-in-law, that's the same Sheena Shea, but like, but uh we didn't invite them, keep them, they showed up. They showed up, which is fine, but I'm not gonna feel bad for people sh physically showing up at the municipal building. Right. And then make it into a big thing when I didn't want it to be a big thing anyway. Right. And it was very, don't get me wrong, it was very sweet of both of them to come. It was very sweet of both of them to be the one. Yeah, we're mad about it. And and take random pictures of us signing papers. Like, I'm not gonna lie, like I thought that was really sweet. Yeah. Not mad about it, but I'm not gonna then now be like, well, now I have to make sure so and so is included. I'm not gonna make sure that my birthday is taken up by the opinion of fucking Claire. So, like, that's where my first one, I was like, I'm not fucking like my birthday has been ruined by so many fucking people in the past. That's true, actually. Claire, you are not coming in to fucking suck the like you were so small of a person, you are not coming in to ruin my life. So that's when I first started to you did say that too. You're like, if she ever ruins a birthday again, this is gonna be a problem. This is gonna be a problem. So well, and with partners too, like, or with partners, with friends too, like they don't have to like your partner, but they have to at least respect if they respect you, they will respect the relationship enough not to stick their hands in it. Right, I agree. So, did you feel that you were forced to choose sides? Because I did. I felt that way. Yeah, I felt that way. I was like, I'm either gonna make a decision where I'm supporting you, or I'm gonna make a decision where I'm supporting her. And I felt like I was constantly picking one or the other to like what makes the most sense to navigate in this moment kind of thing. And it was very strenuous and stressful. Yeah. Um I mean, I would definitely feel that I was trying to make like appease everybody, right? Yes, that was it. The people pleaser themes came out for this a lot. And it was really hard to have that clear communication with both of you. And I'm not gonna lie, I was almost intimidated to have that conversation with Blair at the time because I Well, clearly I was intimidated to have it with Claire. So Claire and Blair, sorry, just anyway, but like I was definitely intimidated to have that conversation because I was afraid of their reaction when in reality neither of us should have been afraid of their reactions. It's not my responsibility to cater to your reaction when I'm putting in boundaries. And that's the real takeaway from like if you're listening, this is the real takeaway. Well, he's like, what even triggered the dislike on her end to me? Like, I know for for Claire, I never got a clear answer of what triggered the dislike. The only time she told me that she disliked you was right before I stopped speaking with her. Like the only time she said it with her chest. Like she's never said anything. Neither did Blair, but I don't think it was about us. I don't think it was about us. Would I or no, sorry, I don't think it was about like the partner. Like you I don't think it was, I don't think you had anything to do with it per se. I think it was no matter who was in the room. Um, that was taking up my energy. That's the same thing. I think it was like be whoever took up more attention was gonna be a target. That's it. Because that always would be a romantic partner for me. That's who always it would be a problem. That's what I'm saying. Like, I don't think it had anything to do with you as the person that you are or or anything. I think it had a lot to do with the fact that like I'm not focusing all of my energy on her. So you are the problem. So I think that that was really it. And I think that also created that tension of not wanting to have that conversation because I already felt the tension of like, oh, I can't even talk to this person while you're in the room, you know? And I think that's why I was like, I can't talk about this person while you're in the room. So I'm just not going to talk about anything ever. And it's and it silenced me. It definitely silenced me. But um I think there was gaslighting for sure because I sat there and I would just like felt as if my needs were definitely not going to be met. And although it wasn't said with words, it was said with actions. And it was said Yeah, it was said with actions. It was said with actions, and it was said with the subtle manipulation of, well, if you do this or you do that, what about your wedding? And even at our wedding, when she was asked to go tell the other girls how to walk down the aisle, she said, I'm still getting ready. And it's like, you don't even care about my fucking wedding. No, no. So, like, and it was just a real sign of way to show me you don't give a fuck about my relationship. Like, way to show me. Well, that's the thing I think with mine too, where is like I said, every other series, the other two series like our long-term relationships I had, they had not really vibed with. And here's the thing, they would say, for at least the one before you would say to that, like about that boyfriend, oh, like that, like they're sweet and that they vibe with them. But okay, they also said that about you in the beginning, but it's more about like, it's like there's an intentional manipulation building where it's like, oh, I do like them, but then like showing disapproval constantly where it makes you question. Right. So at that point, like, is the person telling you that they're like they build it up to the point where, oh, I liked this person, but now I'm not so sure. So I'm really just protecting you. And it's like, is that person really protecting you, or are they asking you to prove your loyalty to them? So it's, and I think for mine, I think for both of ours, but for mine specifically, I'll speak on is like that's what it constantly was is like a proof of loyalty. Like I've always had to prove that they were like the most important. Although when they were in a relationship, it was okay for me to come second. As I should though, if you're in your late 20s, 30s, and you're at that point where you're gonna be getting serious in relationships and getting married. Yes, that is now going to be your family that should that person should be slightly take slightly more precedence. That makes me think of this one episode of Vanderpump Rules with Bo, Kristen, and Stasi. How Kristen takes Bo aside and is like, Aren't we fri- Are we still friends? Are we still friends? Aren't you my friend? You're my boy. That's what she says. You're my boy. And Bo is like, she's the most important thing to me right now. And Kristen's like offended that she comes second, third, fourth, doesn't really matter at this point, to Stasi, who is his wife at this point in time. No, no, no. They are like just about to get engaged. They're just that's what I'm saying, though, like at this point. Like in reality, in the real world, in the real world, they're married, they've been married. But that's the thing, is that like, so for Kristen to be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So you're just gonna do whatever she says. And he's like, Well, I don't want to do anything to intentionally upset her. That's the mother of my children. Yes. Like, so yes. I if I know that like you guys are in a riff right now and like speaking with you is gonna like cause a sensitivity to her, I'd rather like not like you can still talk to me. I'm relieving myself from the situation because I don't want anyone to be upset. And yes, you are my friend. However, that's your drama and I'm not involved. Like, and like I'm going to prioritize Saucy of re-basing. But as you should person. And she was like very offended that that was sad. Kristen was, and as was Claire and Blair. Like, and it's just like you are taking offense, and I'm putting my my love, my partner, first because like, you know what I mean? Can you can you say that with your chest? You know what I mean? Well, also, there's like the yes. Yes. Well, also, there's like the emotional warfare part of it too. So you're not supposed to have to be the referee in your own relationships. And that's what it was. I think when we say like tug of war, it was like being a referee kind of thing. Like who's who's flowing showing the who's throwing the flag down for for what in this purpose? So that actually reminds me of, and we wrote about this earlier, like uh we had the Vander Crump rules, but also the Blake Lively Taylor Swift scandal. I forgot about that. So like that was like a referee thing, and Blake Lively was the one pulling the strings where it was like she had this thing going on with Justin Baldone and whatever. Is that still going on? No, I don't, I think it's done now, but I think it's been done now. But like what I'm saying is in order for her to get what she wanted, she kind of used Taylor Swift as a pawn. Totally. So, and here's the thing like as that person being the pawn, you don't always know right in the beginning that you're being pawned. Like for us, like we were being the puppet. Like we were being like the if I can for for Claire, like if I can manipulate Lauren, then like Vicky will know that like I have higher importance kind of thing. Same thing with Blair with with you. It's like, well, if I can manipulate Vicky, Lauren will know I have higher importance. Right. With Blake and Taylor, it was like, well, if I can show Justin that I'm front of a billionaire, then I can get what I can get my way and like how I want this movie to go. Right. And then once Taylor realized she was being used, that's when like the beast started really breaking out. Right, right, right. But that's what it is. It's like the like who's pulling the strings and and how. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's really hard until something as obvious as that comes to light before you can as the pawn. It's really hard to know that you're a pawn until something as obvious as that comes through. Well, what made you feel like you were being pawned? Our bachelorette party. Okay. When we went out to eat and all we needed was a card for somebody to put down. And I looked directly at her and I said, Somebody's got to put a card down. And she didn't volunteer. And Claire wasn't there for that one. And I said, Okay, Warren's gonna put her card down. And it was outstanding to me that she never said a single fucking thing. And then the next thing that happened was the group chat where she had to react and say, You guys really need to, you know, take control of this or something. And it's like I tried to. And she didn't just do it, she did it in a group chat with 12 other girls. And I was like, okay, you're an asshole. And even then, I was still nervous to come to her at the end of the day and be like, I'm mad at you. I didn't have a conversation with her. And it was hard for you to even do. I remember you being like, I don't even want to have this conversation. Like you were very nervous. I was nervous because I didn't, because I wasn't prepared for her reaction, but that's not my responsibility. Yeah. So that was my first, not my first, but that was the biggest wave of I don't mean anything to you.

SPEAKER_01 35:30

Mm-mm.

SPEAKER_00 35:31

I don't mean anything. I'm just this person in your life that like you're holding on to because you're afraid to move forward. And like I think the same with Claire, honestly. Well, I felt pawned by Claire when I had come to her about the affair, and I was like, hey, like this is what happened. And her first thing that she said to me, and I know I said this in 12 million other episodes, so I'm sorry, guys, but was I never really liked her anyway. And that was the first time she ever said that to me. And she's like, I'm glad I think you should divorce her. I never really liked her anyway. And I'm like, in this moment where I'm coming to you, and I have my energy completely drained. Like, we just got this brand new house. Like my my biggest client just left me. Like it was everything like in the you're gonna throw this on me too. Now I have to take care of your feelings. And that was the first time I felt puppeted where it's like, this whole time you're glad it led up to this. And it's like, fuck you. And then once I started really pulling back and like choosing myself, she was really quick to like sever the tie. And it's like, okay, gotcha. Yeah. I mean, technically I like threw fuel on the fire for sure. She just had the last word, but she always wanted to have the last word, so it's fine. Yeah, but that's but like I'm just like I'm just saying though, like what up to all it took so my point is, it took so much for us for for us for for Taylor Swift for Stasi to have that explosion where it's like, oh my god, enough. Like we're all the little things building up to that point. I'm not a Taylor Swift, I'm definitely a Stossy. Not as clever. Wish I was though. I'm always a Stossy here. I'm just saying. I'm always a Stossy. Um that's not the point. The point is all the little things that building up to that, it's like the explosion at the end. So, like, as far as yes, this is what happens, like the biggest thing too is like, what do we do about it? Right. And before we get into like what we will do about it, the emotional warfare part usually exceeds into social media. So before all this blow-up happens, or in the midst of it. In the midst of it, yeah. I feel like these are like, so as things are happening in real time in real life, social media is playing the undercut. Yes. And like so, so for tectonic plates, shifting, moving, earthquake. Like, for example, like when I had been like, hey, we're gonna work on this. I knew she muted me from seeing her stuff, or like, like from seeing my stuff on the colour. She blocked me right away. Yeah, but like for right, but for me, she muted me. Like she wasn't seeing all of a sudden she would see every story, like every post. And all of a sudden, no, no, no, or she wasn't even seeing, not just she wasn't liking things, she wasn't even seeing my stories anymore. And like, okay, you muted me because you didn't like the answer that I gave you. Right. Because it wasn't the answer you wanted from me. So now you're punishing me right via socials. Right. And like it's almost the same. But here's the thing that's interesting, and I think a lot of people have brought this up via socials. Even if she wasn't that mad at me, where she like muted me, there would be times where she would like all my or she would see all my stories, but she wouldn't like anything. And I knew there was like something going on in her head that wasn't my responsibility to figure out of like her not being happy with me. Yeah. But like everything was always like under the surface. And I guess like the biggest piece of advice from this would be if you have to constantly play under the surface energy in games with people and never really have conversations about where each of you are at, that's not your fucking friend. So it's not worth your energy or time either. I agree. Like it doesn't matter like how long you've known them or what that you think they could do for you, or what you think that they'll what you think they bring to the table. That's way too complicated already. Yeah, it's just it shouldn't be that complicated. Yeah. No. I never uh Blair was never on social media like that. So like I can't even. Are you blind? No, I guess I just don't like again, these are shredded papers. Sometimes you're a dude. These are just shredded papers. Like, I don't remember. Okay, good talk. I'm just like super happy. Um I'm like, I can I can like relate though, because I know that there were times that like she would send me stories about things that are just pertaining to her. And then when she would start sending you stories, not stories, but um memes or memes or whatever, right, right, right. And you were like, Oh, she likes me kind of thing. And I'm like, Yeah, I guess. Like, I don't fucking know. But like it was a performative thing, it was performative. Like when she did feel like for a little while, when she did feel like she was losing grip on you, she would include me enough to breadcrumb me. Or when sending me stories or sending me reels or memes or whatever. But here's the thing, when you say you don't remember like that, she was like she wasn't on social media, like, yes, she was. Because you would tell me, just to remind you, you'd be like, same thing, you'd be like, she stopped liking my stuff out of nowhere. So I don't know like if she's like offline or if she and granted, here's the thing like when we say all this stuff, we are very well aware that like people could just take breaks from social media and that it may not be about us at all. But when the when the math maths, when all the things line up, when there's already XYZ going on, you're not making it up. Yeah. Like if you you like you that's you can gaslight yourself into oblivion, and there's sometimes that you should take a step back and be like, yo, is this really about me? Right. But there's also like, okay, XYZ W A B has gotten us to this point. Yeah. And now this is happening. I think it's out of the blue. Like, it's not. And it's technically none of your business, but the point is it should be a data point for you. And it's also like kind of obvious. No. Like when girls do this, when anybody does this, I don't want to say just girls do this. No, good dudes do this weird shit too. I don't I don't I don't fucking care. But like, um that's not my basics. That that is not my vortex. But like it's obvious when it happens. Like, you muted me. Like, I know when I'm muted, I know when you don't want to see shit. I don't fucking care, but I definitely know. Like, and if we do care though, because otherwise we wouldn't be saying it in this part. Well, that's the thing, is like I care because it's hurtful and it's set it's a thing about where you thought this person was in a few years. I thought it was important. Yeah. I thought I care, I thought I mattered. And like it really gripped my feelings to find out that like I'm just this thing in your life, like I'm furniture in your life, and that really fucking sucked. But say lobby. Biggest thing too, and like, yeah, I know, like mine muted you. And there would be times even throughout my time with you and Claire where like her being in my life, I mean, where like she would like my stuff and not yours, and it was like intentional after like you did something that maybe pissed her off as far as like taking up attention from her at an event or something. It was always something. It was always something, but it was always something. So the thing is like at the end of the day, like, yes, like it can what do we actually do about it? Because this this went on for years for us, and it doesn't have to go on for years for everybody else. Yeah. So what do you do about it? Um have those conversations. Like, don't be like, that's what I'm gonna keep repeating is that their reaction is not your responsibility and it is not your job to predict their reaction. Yeah. So if you're having trouble and you feel that you're doing this tug of war thing, break it down. I mean, uh be real about yourself, be real about where you feel and be real with the people around you that you love. And if you ultimately know that this isn't a relationship that you can see surviving, you have to be real with yourself about that too. Well, yeah, and you can let fear and here's the thing the only reason you wouldn't, truthfully, the only reason you wouldn't have this conversation with that person is because you're afraid. Right. So we can do one of two things in this case. And this is a lot easier said than done when you're in a state of like victim mindset or like this is happening to me, and like you don't know what to do about it. But you can do one of two things. You can continue to let fear hold just to keep the peace, which is really not peace because you're being disrupted. Yeah, no, that's not that's not peaceful, or you can have the difficult conversation and see what happens and know that if they do react to it one, you're not gonna be surprised because it's like also it's like admitting guilt, honestly, at that point. I think that I think that when people I think people, when they're guilty, they give themselves away. And I think that if someone's gonna have a listen, if I stole something from you and you're like, girl, you stole something from me, I'd be like, What do you mean? Why could you believe that I stole something from you? Like, obviously, I can't get into that. But if you didn't be like, What do you I'd be like, I last time I saw it was like yesterday, it was on the counter, I have no idea where it is. Yeah. But if I threw something out that you needed, I'd be like, oh yeah, I definitely threw that shit out. So like, well, now you would say I didn't know. No, but but like, but that's what I'm saying is that people ultimately give themselves away with guilt. Yeah. So they're either gonna say, Oh yeah, I definitely threw that out, and you can have an actual conversation, or they're gonna say, like, I whoa, whoa, whoa! Like and it's like it's like take a seat, Bucko. Yeah, like so again, like sucking up the fear, unfortunately, like having the conversation. Um, have the uncomfortable conversation now because it's only gonna get worse if you hold off. Yeah. Another thing you can do is again, like it really comes down to like what part of it you're when you're recognizing it, can always be like have a conversation at that point in time. But also, truthfully, at the end of the day, if you're reflecting and you're like, look, I don't even want to have a conversation with this person because I I I know it's just gonna add more to my plate and I'm I'm capped out emotionally right now. Like I can't take on more. Right. And like I do need to survive and I do have priorities that I need to take care of. Like, you are most important at the end of the day. Yes. So if it comes between you having a hard conversation with someone that you know isn't gonna continue to be in your life or you saving yourself, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna give advice that's gonna be very controversial here. Go some. Yeah. Go some. If it's if I mean, granted, everyone deserves to have like a you you deserve it for yourself and they deserve if they've been in your life, like to know what's going on. Although part of me is like, if they're manipulative, they fucking know anyway. Fuck them. But at the end of the day, you are the most important. So if you are absolutely at capacity, and this is gonna be the thing that puts you over the edge and like you're gonna end up having like a depressive episode or you're not gonna be able to freaking brush your teeth for a week because like you're that tapped out. Go sound. Have your block them. Have the finality that brings you peace. Yes, that's what it is. Have the finality that brings you peace. I'm just saying that, like, because that's what it's about. Not everyone is going to like the way you handle things. No, I'm sorry. The only way, the only person that matters as far as like is you and your peace. So, like, if you they're not gonna like it, if you're gonna be judged for it, okay. Like, ideally, like again, have a conversation, even if you're afraid, but if it is really going to put you in a bad dark place, yeah, do what is gonna do what you need to to preserve yourself. I agree. And that's controversial advice. But at the end of the day, like, who do you who needs to matter to you more? That's what I'm saying. Who you owe were this other person. Yeah, who do you owe what to? You're always number one at the end of the day. Hell yeah, girlfriend, I believe that. Up top. Ow. Nice. Well, in synopsis, that doesn't make sense. Fuck these hoes and off. Fuck bitches, get money. You know what? Yeah, I'm gonna stick with that one. Fuck bitches, get money.

unknown 46:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 46:07

Um, is there anything that we're missing for like what to do about that? I mean, confronting them or like getting rid of the pro. I mean, that's the only again. Fuck bitches, get money. All right, talk to you in two weeks. Wait, what? Don't forget, we have news for you. Wait. So uh we are changing our name to Mutually Unhinged within the next episode or two. Yes. So be prepared, that is coming. Because we are, in fact, mutually unhinged. So that's gonna be fitting our brand better. And also, as always, hit that like button, subscribe so you get notified as soon as we drop episodes, send this to a friend or family member that you know needs it. Reach out for event sessions because we love to hear it. Yeah, and also we have this new um what's in your relationship view haul. So you can see like if you're hypervigilant, you have trouble with boundaries, like what all that's about. And that's in our website. So we'll link that in the show notes below, too. We're here for you. All right. Fuck bitches, get money.